image by axinia
Depression, the greatest soul plague of modern humans… I wonder is it really a modern phenomenon or it is just better documented nowadays that in earlier centuries?
What defines depression? It is the act of depressing and the condition of being depressed. Depression is characterized by lack of activity, self-worth, dejection, sad feelings, gloom and inadequacy. When the people are in depression, then their life becomes negative. People in depression often face hopelessness, passivity, indecisiveness, suicidal intentions, loss of appetite, weight loss, sleeping disorders.
Here are some statistics on depression:
- Main reasons of depression in men are separation after marriage, widowed, divorce
- In US nearly 7 million women are clinically depressed
- One in seven men will develop depression within 6 months of becoming unemployed
- Mostly 15 percent of women suffering from severe depression will commit suicide
- Nearly 10 percent of women experience postpartum depression after birth of a child
- 2003 National Comorbidity Study, sponsored by the National Institutes of Health 16% of the population that is nearly 35 million Americans suffer from severe depression
- in Austria: every 5th person is clinically depressed and under medication
I guess the statistics on other countries will be not much different. By simply observing that one can get depressed!
Although I am not an expert on this subject, I would like to share one unique experience I had about being depressed. May be it will help someone out.
In my whole life I remember having only one depression. But that was a tough one! At the beginning of my adult life, with it’s brilliant start by a dream-marriage and all promising perspectives I suddenly faced the brutal reality of divorce. And I was only 22! Actually just several months after the most breathtaking love story I was told that love was gone and divorce is unavoidable, the sooner the better. That was really the shock of my life. HOW, WHY?.. I didn’t cry. But my heart became a stone. I saw only black. I could not feel anything. Total emptiness and sadness…Never ever before or after I experienced such a dead state of being. I think that falls definitely under depression mark. On top of that I could not talk to anyone about it because I did not want to disappoint all my beloved ones who felt so happy for my marriage. I was all alone out there facing that disaster.
The rescue came from a pretty unexpected side. I was visiting Russia at that time, all the friends kept inviting me to their places willing to hear the stories about my life abroad. So instead of sitting at my parents’ place and suffering from severe depression, I would go out and share my knowledge and experiences about living abroad with people. After all I could not tell anyone about my real situation and there was no obvious reason to decline invitations.
The most amazing this about it all was that I was “giving” something at the time when I felt myself being empty and dead. And at some point it worked out! At some point I noticed that my heart opened up – because of my friend’s sincere interest and love I was getting during my “lectures about Austria”… And my depression vanished! That was quite a powerful experience.
This recepie may not work for everyone, but for some deifinitely will! Try it out 🙂
LOVE, axinia
axinia
1000 petals by axinia 
I continue to suffer from depression..some days are wonderful and then wham I feel hopeless like right now….always I think to suicide as a way out..but have yet to attemp it……only thing to keep me going is GOD.
I have a great deal of respect for people working their way out of depression or even simply enduring it. It takes a great deal of courage to climb out of the darkness by way of giving to others or even through attention to God. We acknowledge physical courage and sometimes moral courage, but the courage do win internal battles is ignored.
However, let me add that depression must have a physiological basis in addition to a psychological basis. Lately researchers have been finding multiple dramatic benefits from Vitamin D3–one of which is relief and even cure for depression. There is also strong evidence for cancer prevention. The Internet is full of reports.
The D vitamins are manufactured by the body from sunlight, but because the sun is blamed for skin cancer and other problems, few people are getting enough exposure to sunlight these days to manufacture what they need. Cold northern climates increase the problem. Testing has proved that nearly everyone has D3 deficiency.
Get tested for D3 deficiency and start taking 5000 units a day and see if it has an effect. Helping others is great. God is great. But this vitamin is even more tangible. And if it gets you out of depression you will be able to help more people and love God more deeply.
Terry, thanks for the contirbution. I am sure some medication even with vitamins may also help, and of cause no wonder that peope in the colder countires (less sun) are generally tent to more depressions – in terms of yoga is eaisly explained by the right and left sind imbalance (the sun gives energy to the right side and pushes up, when it’s not enough we fall on the left energetic channel and get depressed).
On the other hand, take my own example: since my childhood I was avoiding much sun, – as I always say because of my sunny nature I don’t really lack it. I never sunbathed.I have a pale skin (lack of Vitamin D). And I always have been living in coutnries where the sun is rare (compared to the South). The fact is that I am not tending to be depressive at all! This very story which i described in the post was driven by some extraordinary curcumstances, this does not count.
So why I am not getting depressed even if I obviously lack vitamin D? 🙂
[…] Read more from the original source: A way out of depression […]
The research indicates only that people who are depressed commonly have vitamin D deficiency. Not that people who have vitamin D deficiency are commonly depressed.
An increase in vitamin D3 has an immediate positive effect on many depression sufferers. There are many other possible difficulties associated with vitamin D deficiency, so it is worth looking into for anyone. Yoga may trump vitamin D, but I wouldn’t wait for scientists to research that phenomenon. Unfortunately, for people who are depressed and feel hopeless, it could be hard to believe the cause and the cure might be this simple, so they have to be strongly encouraged to look into it.
Personally, I find it difficult to take science very seriously when claims that are made today are reversed in six months, but every experience has a corresponding physiological state, and if negative experiences can be removed by changes in physiology, all the better. I am sure the cure from yoga or ayurveda is more complete, but it’s all good.
A jyotishi told me once that my nature is to be depressed, but my mind is so busy I never notice I am depressed. I’m not sure that is a good cure.
Great point Terry. I hope people reading this post will try it will vitamin D (i will also recommend it to some who are suffering, let’s see what the resuls will be).
I am interested in your opionon about the nature of depression and whether do you think it is modern phenomenon or is it common for all ages?
It has been said that the 20th Century was the century of physical sciences, during which our understanding of the mechanics of our existence grew by giant leaps–stopping short of the understanding that “All this is nothing but That,” unfortunately. And the 21st Century is projected to match those leaps in understanding life sciences, most notably medicine.
Medicine is currently fixated on isolating symptoms and in turn isolating chemicals that combat the cause of those symptoms. The more precise the diagnosis, the more precise the cure. What is missing is an understanding of the whole–who is the person who has the disease? Not every problem will manifest itself in a consistent way inside the body or mind of two different people. Ayurveda claims to be able to do that but a lot of Ayurvedic knowledge was wiped out over time so it remains undependable.
Depression is one of those illnesses that could be diagnosed from many different perspectives. So have people always suffered from depression? I would say yes, definitely. But as diagnosed by strict modern standards, maybe it is a new disease. And during this century of medical advancement we should expect the definitions of diseases to fracture into many sub-conditions, because classification is such an overvalued element of science. We may end up with 50 different ways to be depressed.
I believe that animals suffer depression. Dogs lose energy, sleep continuously, and avoid life when they are confined or mistreated. The same is true for primates and elephants in zoos. Horses are natural herd animals and when they are forced to live separate from other horses and have no humans who compensate for that herd mind, they become very depressed. A doctor might accuse me of projecting human sensibilities on animals, but that is just a stupid doctor. Sorry.
Terry, I must admit, I LOVE your comments – always so balanced, profound, intelligent and yet humble. THANK YOU!
This is a wonderful post, Axinia! 🙂
I’m sorry to learn 😦 of the terrible difficulties in life you had to face at such a young age. Having gone through a depression at a similar age as you (and thankfully having pulled through it successfully, just like you 😉 ), I can completely understand the horrors 😯 you had to endure. And I believe that unlike me (who was surrounded by and received constant support from relatives and friends), you had to face it all alone while living in (what must have been) an alien land (at that time) and far from the comforting and supporting presence of family and friends.
On another note, learning of what you had gone through, I can now understand your irrational and inexplicable contempt and hatred for “love marriages” and preference for “arranged marriages” (terms used for two different “types” of marriages that exist among the primitive societies and uncouth peoples). But on that note, you were speaking for yourself from your own experience and it does not hold true for others (especially for the savages living in uncouth societies who sometimes get to see their spouse for the first time after marriage 😯 )
Oh dear, my incomplete comment got posted after I accidentally hit the button when the cursor was on the “post comment” button.
I wanted to add that, if you had any idea of how “arranged marriages” work among some savage hordes in the uncouth parts of the world with filthy “cultures” (where the husbands and in-laws deliberately douse the brides with fuel and then burn them to death for not bringing enough “dowry” and pass it off as an accidental case of “stove burst”), you wouldn’t be so enthusiastic about “arranged marriages”. Just because you aren’t aware of such countless happenings that take place in this day and age (or rather, choose to ignore them in your deep fascination for the “culture” of the sub-human hordes), it does NOT mean that they don’t take place or that “arranged marriages” become better than “love marriages”.
But I certainly understand why you feel that way about the two “types” of marriages given the things that you had to go through 😦
It’s a different topic altogether, and let me get back to the topic of depression in my next comment.
🙂
Raj thanks for undertanding and pelase do not exaggerate: I never “hate” anything, and of cause love marriages can be wonderful (my parents had one). I just mean that love marriage is NOT THE ONLY way to marry, there are others and it is all very personal. I made my experience and learned from that.
Oops 😳 I’m sorry for believing you hated “love marriages”, Axinia 😦 The way you repeatedly keep glorifying “arranged marriages” that take place in uncouth societies (even if it is a womaniser like Akbar marrying his Nth wife, who would turn out to be little more than another woman in his overflowing harem) as the epitome of supposed “love” 🙄 made me feel you have a healthy contempt for “love marriages”.
By the way, I do NOT hate “arranged marriages” either 😐 (my parents too had an arranged marriage). If a man and woman do indeed want to get married by letting others decide for them, then so be it.
It’s just that I hate the way in which “arranged marriages” are done among the savage peoples in uncouth societies. Among the barbarians who live in mediaeval societies, “arranged marriages” may actually mean “forced marriages” or one in which the dividing line between “forced” and “arranged” is very thin. Among other primitive savages, “arranged marriages” have very little to do with marriage or love, they tend to be more about dowry, horoscope, income, occupation, degrees (diplomas), family background, social status, caste, religion, preference of mother, father, uncle, aunt, grandfather, grandmother, granduncle, family astrologer, family grocer, pet dog etc. etc.
🙂
Hi axinia
nice topic and of course personal experience as it valued more.
depression are of two type endogenous and exogenous.usually exogenous have a better recovery as in your case as it has got trateble cause even though endogenous depression can give better response to early treatment (antidepressant apart from ECT) and maintenance dose. some genetic predisposed depression are little bit difficult to treat.there is close relation of hormone like estrogen with depression (so shows physiological variation of mood and with menarche,menstruation and menopause as usual during pregnancy and post delivery as there is lot of hormonal variation) and with vit d3absorption so you may find interrelated and so we give supplementation of ostocalcium with folic acid and vit d3 etc. during and after pregnancy/delivery and after menopause. cyclic type mood disorder also difficult to diagnose as take long time with different presentation and usually hiding tendency with changing of doctors.
melancholic, introverted type personality are more prone for even recurrence also even after treatment.
current life style ( stressful )is also most prevalent cause for increasing depression which can best managed by meditation only.
But most importantly my point of discussion is your sentence ….
This giving something phenomenon is most important for reliving depression as we always promote to ventilate when person is depressed. we can definitely prevent suicide attempt if we able to identify these signs which person want to communicate but unable . Nobody want to dye with own they just want to change environment ( internal and external) around which is irritable and ego destroying which usually cause by thinking and not ventilating as they think i am innocent and my problem is the biggest problem which has no solution and others are not bothering it. and here exactly ( As I always teach my students can hit with health education) we should concentrate. we needs peoples education on this psychological approach with counseling and better family support. we do frustrate and irritated easily with many things around but long standing …. definitely we should consult counselor … it is treatable with full recovery.but keeping quite and hiding the emotions is obviously dangerous if it is not resolved internally and enters into internal conflict .
You can refer resent sahajayoga experiment on same topic …
Neuroscience Research, ISSN: 0976-8866 & E-ISSN: 0976-8874, Vol. 1, Issue 1, 2010, PP-01-08
Copyright © 2010, Bioinfo Publications
Neuroscience Research, ISSN: 0976-8866 & E-ISSN: 0976-8874, Vol. 1, Issue 1, 2010
Effect of higher state of consciousness Thoughtless awareness on
psychological health
Sandeep Rai1*, Sharma R.C.2, Singh C.B.2, Shaunak A. Ajinkya3, Gangawane A.K.4
1Department of Internal Medicine, Mahatma Gandhi Mission Medical College and Hospital, Navi
Mumbai, 410209, clinicalmeeting@mgmuhs.com, 022-27422471/27421994
2Department of Physiology, M.G.M Medical College, Sec-18, Kamothe, Navi Mumbai
3Dept. of Psychiatry, Mahatma Gandhi Mission Medical College and Hospital, Navi Mumbai
4School of Biomedical Science, Department of Biotechnology, M.G.M Institute of Health
Sciences, Sec-18, Kamothe, Navi Mumbai.
http://www.sahajayoga.org.in/NewsInDetail.asp?NID=314
Meditation gives internal support and dissolve conflicts of course thoughtless awareness give feeling as you mentioned …..so this is another proof of your being meditative path nothing else even in 22…..
thanks
When the people are in depression, then their life becomes negative.
Though negative feelings you mentioned (like lack of activity, self-worth, dejection, sad feelings, gloom and inadequacy etc.) tend to occur naturally in depressed people, depression doesn’t always have to be immersed in such “negative” emotions.
A terrible thing is that one can become (for lack of a better word) is “a living dead person” during a depression i.e. one with no feelings or emotions whatsoever, characterised by a total emptiness or a blankness that is difficult to explain. One begins to go through the motions of life without having any kind of zest to live. It’s as if one has given up the spark inside to become zombie-like 😦 or live in an emotion-less vegetative state 😦
.. I didn’t cry. But my heart became a stone. I saw only black. I could not feel anything. Total emptiness and sadness…Never ever before or after I experienced such a dead state of being. I think that falls definitely under depression mark.
You’ve hit the nail on the head there, Axinia dear 😐 That is exactly what depression can do to a person.
If you ask me, it is much WORSE than being filled with “negative emotions” like anger, sadness, melancholy, etc. For as I keep mentioning, all “negative emotions” are just emotions (energies), and the outcome of those does not necessarily have to be negative. Even “negative energies” like friction, inertia, wasteful energy loss etc. are utilised POSITIVELY in science and technology – friction is used in the concept of braking, inertia is used in flywheels, energy loss is used in light bulbs etc. etc. Despite the energies themselves being perceived as negative, the outcome is positive and beneficial! It is similarly possible and highly advisable to use “negative emotions” is a positive and beneficial manner 🙂
What depression does is to rob one of emotions, positive or negative. It is easy to convert a negative integer into a positive integer by just inserting a simple line (e.g. -3 can be converted to +3 by just adding an l on the – sign 🙂 ) But is is very difficult to convert 0 (zero) into something positive. Even if you add any number of +s before zero or multiply it or divide it any number of times, it still remains 0 (zero). And that is exactly the effect of depression.
🙂
Raj, all is a game of hormones. stable hormones definite gives positive reactions even with negative emotions whenever nesessory.
and believe me really nothing is in hand of depressed person as he doesn’t understand phenomenon. he constantly goes into deep depression . we even though understands many times unable to control otherwise doctors would not have depressed. most of time they needs external support but mostly fails as unable to change environment so medicines improves hormonal levels and patients feels better. thanks now there are really good medicines apart from ECT. but i find this mood disorders better to treat than schizo as some psychological approach is possible apart from medicine.
Negative…positive life events are possible in everybody’s life. our attitude towards it decides of our illnesses. so with our specific attitude we welcome the disease means not at ease …
… so finally, best psychological approach to come out from frustration/ depression is ventilation. ventilate all your emotions ( negative/positive?) and become empty minded if not possible, self talk ( just like talking with GOD) during unknown fears to built up self courage. every thing is possible with it in given life.. s life is precious and for enjoy. Most important problem here is everybody talks … nobody listens .. so i suggest even though others are not listening please ventilate yourself whenever needed it will reduce intensity of emotions as some after time they are going tobe dissolve by natural way. but if you ride on impulse then it my turn into successful suicide or in any criminal behavior.
so Raj negative emotions are dangerous….
I remember that even I had to undergo depression when I was in 9th grade because of overburden of studies.The depression continued in the 10 grade and I consulted a psychiatrist but it wouldn’t leave me.Then I tried ‘Ayurveda’ for it and it disappeared after few months.But still it was a difficult time for me.
Now, coming to the most important part, how can one get out of depression? I know different things work for different people, and each case must be viewed INDIVIDUALLY, as the causes may be different, but some common things can be held to be generally applicable. As always the best method is to follow the principle Prevention is better than cure. Which is easier said than done, for no one falls into a depression willingly, and unfortunately, life is not a bed of roses and sad, unpleasant and unexpected things can happen at any time, pushing one into depression.
But there are ways to get out of depression, or at least minimise the effects of depression while allowing Father Time to work his stuff on healing emotional scars. Some of them are:
➡ Surround oneself with good company, especially loved ones, relatives and close friends. One of the first things depressed people do is to shut themselves off from others and go into a shell. This tendency must be avoided. One must know that there are people who understand you, who love you, care for you and are willing to help you get over the terrible state.
➡ Avoid the company of notorious riff-raff, the human garbage who pose as one’s “friends” who have a “friendship” which is nothing more than a parasitical relationship with the host. Such fair-weather friends will be the first ones to abandon a person who has fallen into depression or even make matters worse by their filthy behaviour. A true friend is someone who stands by one through thick and thin, who multiplies the joys and divides the sorrows a person experiences. Like the farmer using a breeze to separate the grain from the chaff, a depression will separate the true friends from the poseurs, the parasitic leeches and the like.
➡ Talk to someone, someone whom you can trust. One may have different comfort levels with different people on different issues and the key is to find someone appropriate, who is willing to listen and help, or at least take you to someone who can help. Remember, there are people who love you, and sometimes they offer to help you of their own accord, having noticed the signs of depression in one. It is very easy for a loved one or friend to notice that something is “just not right” with a person. Do not spurn their help.
➡ Maintain a wide circle of friends, especially those who have the gift of being jovial or funny or joking or joy-inducing pranksters, even if they are not close friends. It is difficult to be sad or emotionless in the company of such people. Even if they can manage to induce a repressed smile, an unsupressable giggle or a little laughter here and there, it can go a long way in getting out of a depressive state.
➡ Cultivate a few hobbies, and devote time to ensure that you don’t discard or discontinue them. Life can get monotonous with just work or study. It’s necessary to have some hobby or the other to break the monotony and concentrate on something that one enjoys. In my opinion, it’s better to have one or two hobbies that one is deeply interested in, rather than have several passing interests. The more the mind is focused on things one enjoys, the less room there is for emptiness. Hobbies and leisure activities also help in drastically increasing one’s circle of friends and acquaintances.
➡ Keep (a) pet(s) for company. It has been proven that pet-owners are generally a happier and emotionally healthier lot than those who can’t tolerate the presence of animals. Even if it is just a tank filled with fish or a couple of rats or a few insects, pets do have a good effect on one’s life. Obviously, the closer the animals are to humans in the animal kingdom, the better their effect would be as pets. Dogs and cats are prime candidates for being the best pets without a doubt. While dogs are emotionally more connected to their masters (in general) than cats, it can work both ways. They can understand the emotional state of their master better but given their servile nature, dogs can also tend to reflect the same state. Pet cats on the other hand, behave more like friends than slaves. They may be slower than dogs to connect emotionally, but they definitely can do so, and their graceful, playful and warm nature may help one just a bit better.
➡ This one is a golden rule – DO NOT get addicted to substances! It is downright foolish and stupid to assume that guzzling alcohol is going to “drown one’s sorrows”. It is NOT and instead, it will only DROWN the person. It’s the same with the filthy tobacco stick. Far from “calming nerves”, the turdy tobacco stick is only going to lead to a nervous breakdown, apart from lung and mouth cancer and other such crap. As far as drugs are concerned, they could be the worst. The filthy, chemically induced “highs” they provide are NOT a “cure” by any stretch of the imagination.
➡ Eat healthy food and in sensible quantities. While it’s common for depressed people to lose appetite, it’s not rare for them to develop a tendency to overeat, especially unhealthy food they might have had a craving for.
➡ Don’t even think of taking the extreme step i.e. committing suicide. It’s NEITHER a solution NOR an escape from the situation, but total surrender and giving up on the problem. Always get the better of the situation, don’t allow the situation to get the better of you. Remember that life is more than a single event or series of events, unhappy and sad as they may be.
➡ Use your mind and your ability to think. Non-thinking is going to get one nowhere and is a criminal waste of the mental abilities that Mother Nature was kind enough to gift to hominoids. Nothing can get one out of a bad situation than one’s own mind and ability to think and it is certainly true for a depression.
➡ Though I’m not sure of how effective it would be, some people may seem to have found a way to get out of, or deal with depression, by turning to religion and acquiring or re-acquiring a belief in “God”.
➡ Medicines – they are a mixed bag. In cases of bodily/hormonal conditions causing a depression, like in post-partum depression, they may be effective. But otherwise they are practically worthless. Psychiatrists often try to treat a situation of the mind by creating chemically induced reactions in the body and they usually do not work. (It certainly did not work for me. The medicines I took only made matters worse by inducing laziness, sleepiness and some mental sloth. The best thing I did was to deliberately stop taking those silly medicines.) But it may not be the case for everyone. I also believe anti-depressants are quite addictive and are indiscriminately prescribed in certain societies.
➡ Have faith in yourself! Tell yourself that not all is lost, that you are capable of pulling through a bad phase and that you will find a way and not let down yourself or your loved ones down and that a new dawn awaits once the rough patch is over.
➡ It may be a terrible thing, but once a person finds a way out of depression, he/she usually emerges stronger, more mature and wiser out of it. After all, one’s character is formed by tackling the tough things in life. The tougher it is, the stronger and wiser one gets on tackling it and emerging out of it unscathed.
🙂
Raj, what a great collection of tipps, glad to read such a constructvie comment from you 🙂 Exellent input!
congrats Raj, all it remind me of my psychotherapy class which i teach. nice collection with comprehensive and constructive notes . you have your own right to preserve the opinion but i strongly believe sahajayoga meditation definitely help to come out not only depression but many such other psychosomatic conditions .
For that it is important to understand subtle system. you know all these channels and plexus are interrelated with neuro-endocrinology pathways which are stabilizing and energizing while meditation by balancing hormonal secretion and neurotransmitter use.and that’s why it is broadly accepting as allied medical science.
personality development is constant phenomenon which broadly affected by hereditary and environmental factor, still by determination one can start from any point and any time of life .his gain can be depend on genetically endowment but one can not leave hopes as many mutations , combination are possible and can be transmitted to next generation through genetic coding( So is very much proved with various addiction including alcoholism and use of tobaco in it’s various forms) with your positive determination . thoughtless awareness is not mean not thinking at all but it suggest to remain in present and down to earth with real acceptance.
Axinia, you must have learned about five stages of psychological adaptation in your university study. just to remind that it is very interesting to understand that in which stage patient is coming . First stage is Denil , due to which true myocardial infraction is considered as just abdominal discomfort and ignored. second is anger, Why only me and not others so rejection is shown for everything with fighting and arguing with everybody will common ( around me all others are smoking and not developed cancer ,why only me?) third stage is bargaining. here self talk or talk with God started where patient promise for good behavior and bargain to postpone disease/incidence . and now real drama start as patient began with which stage, it will depend on his attitude as i mentioned ie either depression which is inevitable or acceptance .
What happens many people, not willingly, accepts first and then go to depression refusing treatment and positive response to it. but many first goes to depression as it is inevitable with any such disease like cancer of any valuable loss or incidence and then gradually accept coming down to earth ie reality and adapt favorable changes in behavior. here comment of Raj on positive attitude works otherwise your all suggestions get fails in other sages. and that’s why it is very much important to understand in which phase patient is otherwise every good advice and action goes waste.
Many nurses and Jr. doctors I have seen fighting with patient as they donot understand these stages. e.g. if a client is asking repeatedly about simple thing like diet and dose of insulin in diabetes and its outcome, or on a pre opeative night a client repeatedly coming to nursing station and asking about his outcome about surgery and not sleeping nurse or doctor may shout at him and stop two way dialog which is most important in therapeutic relationship as they dont understand this process. so faithful acceptance should be a last stage and not a depression.
Next point i want put into discussion that Raj comment on marriage even though personal matter.
as in India also everything is not well. Why I surprise for not that of your interest in Indian culture but as i believe and most of people believe that most of Indians are sentimental on emotion ( Raj will not agree as he knows more about corruptions,murders , criminality and mafia Raj In India) which is not so true for westerns . Even though marital status is not good Indians do not go to divorce they will continue those unhappy relationships as wives have no voice but in westerns they can go happily and willingly to divorce and start new life from beginning. my point of surprise is even though westerns why you upset so much with divorce which is very much common there.? Sorry if it is too personal. You are free for not to answer or edit the comment.
Thanks all
mahesh, of cause your question is rather personal, but I still can answer here.
Marraige is still a more serious realtionships that merely geoing out with a boyfriend/girlfriend, belive me 🙂 Even in the West. This may be also the reason why nowadays speople want to merry less (too much responsibility).
In my case although I was very young (21), I took it very seriously and – most important – my first husband was in many ways an exeptional person (briliant charismatic, fast in handling, successful businessmen already at 22, generous and romantic – a man of a rare type today), he seemed to be the real prince of all dreams! And I was despretate not only because I loved him, but because I knew it will be almost impossible to find another one like that…It turned out to be true – i never met anyone who would remind of his sparkling personality… In fact it took me at least 3 years to overcome the divorce!
thanks dear sis and sorry I don’t want to disturb you on emotional front . but still I am having same question if western people are not serious about their relationship and rather not marrying to avoid relationship responsibility so not being sentimental on relation issue as like us . even though you are not from India and your Russian culture is also totally different why you have not come under that western culture influence? Why you were so much serious about your emotions even in west and in 22? Why your views are totally matching with our views?.
believe me my own sister got married by arranged marriage at 19 when i was in 16 . within one month I brought her back and afterwords she never went. Afterwords she was with us almost for next 23 years. Just two years back I prepared her for marriage and she got married again after my mother’s death. so it is bit difficult to understand as different culture issue. Here definitely divorce is difficult and second marriage for girls is too much difficult as it is not allowed and not worked (men can do?). obviously i have taken bold decision for her and had turn to successful. she is happy in her new life.
in my first year class also one student is like that from maratha family Her husband is OK with her but he didnt open his mouth in front of his father and his father doesn’t allow her. he announced that he will kill her if she enters in his house so her parent not sending to her, at least not forced to go which usually occur here . they put her in nursing. She is depressed and matter is in court. What counseling we can give her on emotional front? she is in 19th. she is confused. she may get divorce but will not able to get married easily as strictly not allowed . so depression is inevitable for her … let’s hope she my stable with us . she will be with us for next six years.
Sorry i too become sentimental and goes off topic
i believe always there is bright ,warm and sunny morning after dark and lengthy night ….just we should prepare ourselves and wait for brighter tomorrow….
Thanks dear.
……and most importantly it is my humble request don’t compare past experiences as they are unique one for you. they are having their own values which may not be comparable. their must be some moments which can be remember always even after failure so i always feel that ….. even every failure has its own rainbows and every cloud has glistening border …. so why to compare? our experiences are always best for us as our contribution is 100% and …. and no carry over as present is present and it’s so unique and joyous too!!!. may Mother bless us . sorry again as I am disturbing in too personal things but i cant control from writing( Indian tendency?).
Thanks
“indian tendency” :))))))))))) I noticed already some years back that on Internet Indians are the first to comment 🙂
Ever thought that sentimental idealisation might be linked to delusion?
)))) true.
But arranged marriages is the sentimental idealisation of a business deal and class division neglecting sexuality and love too in a violent way.
Bravo!!! 🙂
I don’t have much of an idea of how “arranged marriages” take place in civilised societies (as I believe the the concept of “arranged marriages” generally disappeared from civilised societies at the end of the mediaeval ages or at the most, about one or one-and-a-half centuries ago).
But you are 100% correct about “arranged marriages” that take place among the less and least civilised peoples of uncouth societies – they are less about marriage or love and more like a breeding contract finalised as a business deal between the families of those getting married.
🙂
… Love develops afterwords.!!! obviously depending on both’s contribution and mearly it is not breading contract but social ventilation to sex and related emotions with mutual understanding bet. two adults.
even though complex phenomenon built on belief of definitely getting family/society support and control on emotional and social aspect of course taking responsibility of caring is expected along with sex and love. whether they are civilized or not I dont know.
… It is overall personality development and satisfaction of various developmental needs under control of family /societal support and control ..
Rather current trends in educated and holding responsible posts shows enjoying all freedoms with avoiding family and individual responsibility which seems tobe another business deal just like they doing in office successfully which I hope expected tobe end in loneliness and frustration when needed…. as use and through philosophy is used so not useful can be easily dumped or just avoided and so no questions arrised of taking care when needed which obviously badly hit on emotional dependency which is mostly needed in sex and love even though both are capable by nature and mature and economically sound. I hope you understand my point.
many times i have seen these tribal and uneducated take better care and shows better support to each other when needed ( yesterdays experience ….to pay wife’s medical bill husband, who is farmer sold land and took her to home( which was obviously less and no other money source..) ) having two school going children and no other income source. that why i said it is complex phenomenon.!!!
Dear Maheshsaheb,
I respect your right to hold your opinions and believe in whatever you want to believe and practise the same. But it does not mean I have to agree with the same.
You see yoga and meditation as allied medical sciences. You are welcome to hold that view. I see them as exercise and not as medicine. Anything that has health benefits does not automatically become medicine. Walking, swimming, cycling and other forms of physical exercise all have health benefits but such exercises are not medicine. The same is applicable for yoga and meditation. All of them are exercises meant to keep the body in decent physical condition but they are not medicine by any stretch of the imagination because on their own, they can cure nothing. There is a difference between greasing/oiling a machine and repairing a machine 🙂
thoughtless awareness is not mean not thinking
I’m sorry Maheshsaheb, but you name the term as “thoughtless awareness” and want me to believe it does not mean non-thinking??? 😕
See how you put the word “thoughtless” first, as if it were a pre-condition for “awareness”. For me, awareness can come only by using the ability of the brain to think and not by voluntarily dumping it into the dust-bin. Allowing the sense organs to be awake (and therefore “aware”) while allowing the mind to go to a thoughtless state similar to that while sleeping is not true awareness. True awareness can come only by utilising the ability of the mind to think. Going into an abnormal permanent self-made bubble state of existence where thoughts are forcibly repressed is not true awareness.
Take the hordes and hordes of reclusive non-thinking bubble-dwellers who voluntarily dumped the thinking abilities of their minds into the trash heap and went into a permanent bubble state of non-thinking. There was/is no shortage of such abnormal people in the uncouth Indian sub-continent historically or currently. What have such permanent bubble-dwellers contributed to the betterment of humankind, the evolution of humanity or for civilisation??? Absolutely nothing. Is there any simple thing such non-thinkers discovered or invented that made life better for humankind??? Absolutely nothing. Why, the hordes and hordes of such abnormal fellows who walked upon the sewery Indian sub-continent could not even ensure that the sub-human hordes around them behave at least as humans, if not as civilised peoples. They are just bubble-dwellers who became recluses and abandoned humankind and civilisation, but contributed absolutely NOTHING to it.
In contrast, each and every little thing of benefit to humankind and the evolution of civilisation has been contributed ONLY by those who utilised the ability of their minds to THINK. Do you think the internet, which acts as such a wonderful tool of international individual collective awareness, was invented by a loincloth-clad permanent bubble-dweller sitting with his legs folded under a tree, after having voluntarily abandoned his thinking abilities???
No, it was not! The internet, as with everything else that is of benefit to humankind as well as the concepts that led to the advancement of human civilisation was invented/discovered by those who could use the ability of their minds to THINK and never by those who voluntarily threw their thinking abilities into a trash heap.
Low IQed, extremely uncouth, paan-and-gutka chewing hordes, who observed such permanent bubble-dwellers believed they “knew everything and were aware of everything”. What a load of bull! 😆 If they were so aware and knew everything as the uncouth hordes of the sub-satanic sub-continent claim, they why didn’t they contribute even a single thing for the benefit of humankind??? Why didn’t they attempt to civilise the pea-brained, sub-human hordes that surrounded them???
There can only be two reasons. One, if they were indeed “aware” of everything, they were notoriously and unbelievably selfish and did not want to share it or contribute anything, even a simple thing to better humankind. The other possibility is that they knew absolutely nothing or were aware of absolutely nothing. Whatever they “knew” or were “aware” of, was merely bubble-knowledge or bubble-awareness, which had no meaning outside their self-made bubble and that’s why their true contribution to better humankind or advance civilisation has been NIL, ZERO, ZILCH, NOTHING.
Thank you, Maheshsaheb, but I would rather believe in those who utilise the ability of their THINKING minds to create/invent/discover things that lead to collective consciousness (like the internet) to some bubble-dwelling recluse who merely claimed that he “knew” the secret to collective consciousness inside his little self-made bubble. Bubble concepts have no meaning in the actual world. Bubble reality is not actual reality. Bubble knowledge and bubble awareness are not true knowledge and true awareness, not by any means 😐
🙂
Reading these posts has been very helpful..I started this journey out of my horror almost a year ago, I simply take each day as it comes, I can do no more..finding loyal friends has been a great help as well:) My life simply continued because I handed it over to GOD…this blog also helped me at many times..thank u Axinia 🙂
CECE, happy to hear you are struggling through! Sure you will make it!
And thanks for the note about my blog – in fact several epople mentioned me that just reading my posts helps them out of the depressive mood…what can be a greater compliment for me!
Don t get too sure that you have only this effect! Sometimes, I join in in your view about beauty and compassion, but sometimes I can t believe some of your mental short cuts, when I read them.
interesting, same feeling i have about you.
yeah, really…playing ping pong now?
I think being actively involved in something that is to do with giving to others is cruxial to get out of depression.
Erwin, the thing is that unfortuantely people who tend to depressions are mostly avoiding any activities which might help them out (left sided)…
And if depression would appear far more suitable as non moving position in a society who is expected to be far more critical if people express their anger or other strong emotions like grief or real sadness, lust or even mixed paradox feelings.Depression is the mannerist reaction of a reality phobic system.
Don t move, don’t revolt! Take your pill!
Or be truly yourself and DISTURB!
i guess a deeply depressed person simply cannot revolt.
Moral of the story-Let your parents chose the person whom you are going to marry because they know more than us.I have found that love marriages end in a divorce more than arrange marriages.
Sam statistically seen you are right, love marriages show a higher percentage of divorce. However even the parents are know all-knowing and can make mistake. A marriage can be arranged by some other means too – but to have love in the begining is not essential. Essential that it grows with the time.
Dear Axinia,
Thanks for sharing. Im a depression patient. Clinical. Taking medication from 2001. I mostly rely on tablets. If i continue the tablets, im ok. If i stop for week, im washed by a tidal wave. Cant, work, cant talk to someone sense, cant perform…..still im taking tablets, i used to feel hopeless, and life was dead end. Then SHri Mataji found me. Sahaja yoga is my medicine now. Meditating for the past 2 years. Still taking medicines, but im sure this is the right path. Never have i felt so much hope anywhere else. JAI SHRI MATAJI!!
Vijay, sorry to hear about that. I wish you to overcome it one day. Nothing is impossible, especially if your desire is there.
Nothing to be sorry about that. Im happy im in Sahaja Yoga now, and im very happily meditating everyday. Im sure things will become better some day and enjoying the present.
Remembered commenting to your post which was very touching to me. Still taking tablets, but, things are a bit more clear now. Thanks to Sahaj, im able to feel why the negativity comes in, first it catches the heart and damages the confidence very badly, then when fear takes over, depression starts all over again. working on it, or rather say im being worked on :-)), Sometimes i feel the negativity go out, that time, its peaceful, heart is free, no fear, it is silent and things are more clear, no disturbing thoughts, its an amzing experience. But then the negativity keeps coming back. But the good part is I have never felt the decease going out before. Medicines helped me, but this experience cannot be given by medicines alone. Wish i can stay in the peaceful state. Patiently waiting for the frredom of the Spirit……….
I guess everyone has their own way of getting out of depression. Axinia, your story though feels sad is inspirational. It takes lot of courage to even talk about such things. Sadly not many are able to do it and end up sufferring with it their entire lives. Household abuse even amongst the high-class and educated families is sadly happening even today.
Thank you Triveni, I know what you mean with hausehold abuse – heard a lot about it, luckily never experineced.
Yes, it shows in ur post, that it was preferred to end it rather than suffer through it. But ultimately whatever happened, happened for good for u.. 🙂
obviously for good! I am happily married now for 6 years. 🙂
By the way I forgot to add one quote which is lying in my one diary for many years ….
Successful marriage require falling in love …. with one person … for many times..
Thanks
Ah…the old concept that if you put two people into a situation they cant avoid each other, love will appear out of this chemical reaction.
Possible too, they cant stand each other and do their best to please everybody s expectation, up to a point of disgust life turns into a long lasting hell.
Naturally long lasting love in everywhere a daily effort, but mistrusting love as base of engagement right at the start is a speciality of certain places.Not to mention that humans in our country can change their life situation if couple situation turns to be destructive or simply a mistake.It does not unfold necessary in a drama.Sticking together forever is not necessary a sign of an healthy relationship, turning the page can be a sign of awareness and self respect .Not to mention that having to pay that love appears, is a bit suspect,no? .As long both gender have not the same right to handle this neurotic situation, let s not talk about spirituality or freedom.Less sugary films, and more sexual liberation,emotional maturity would do some good to not mistrust the own feelings when things turns not as rosy as expected and told.May humans have the courage to follow their hearts truly! That is human duty and truly spiritual, not pleasing people who burden a false image on other, simply because they did not have the choice themselves and have to legitimate their own situation.
Traditions can be dehumanised systems!
Dear sister, Why you cant understand that marriage is responsibility also.
Dharmech, Arthechya, Kamechya Naticharami…….. means I will give support and remain together in all respect…. It is said that marriages are made in havens then why you think for its break only and of course ripped mango, well preserved pickle definitely increase taste!!!! so i am sure happily adding years will definitely enrich personal portfolio. True Love began with maturity. Why one can not struggle for that?
Traditions can be dehumanised systems…. if follows blindly…..!!! plz understand meaning behind it
All is never well as two individuals are never unique in any type of marriage …. one should understand that ….
thanks
Naturally long lasting love in everywhere a daily effort, but mistrusting love as base of engagement right at the start is a speciality of certain places.
Sticking together forever is not necessary a sign of an healthy relationship, turning the page can be a sign of awareness and self respect.
Not to mention that having to pay that love appears, is a bit suspect,no?
Traditions can be dehumanised systems!
You’ve hit the nail on the head again, Antiphonsgarden! :applause: 🙂 You seem to know exactly how the so-called “arranged marriages” work among the less and least civilised peoples of the world.
If you know the answer to this, why and how did “arranged marriages” which seem to have been quite the norm in mediaeval Europe (as they are in uncouth societies today), largely disappear completely from Europe a few centuries or at the most a century or so ago? I remember reading in one of my French textbooks a story about a girl in mediaeval France who married a man (“arranged”, of course) after paying a large dowry (the French word for dowry is dot I believe). I clearly remember this because the entire class was surprised that such a filthy concept of “dowry” existed in France as “dowry” and “bride price” are typical characteristic of marriages that take place among the uncouth peoples. Did “arranged marriages” largely disappear from civilised societies as they gave up their mediaeval beliefs and traditions or did they disappear after women began to receive more rights and respect in society?
🙂
Raj and Antiphonsgarden ,weddings are counted in “wedlock hours” ! this much chief wedding system has become in western world. this is of what type of sign ? is it more awareness of self respect or any thing else .you can think yourself. One thing I know that each system has its its own problems at their extremes. Rate of dowry are increased e.g. gold in kilos,car,flat etc even in common man’s family and for that loans are taken by parents and cost of “marriage ceremony ” has reached in lacks and more as prestige issue i am not talking about Gadakaries marriage i am talking about common man but still on other hand Blind love marriages are very rare . they also see earning capacity ,handsomeness and family size. If all things are clear then green signal is given to girl other wise oppose is very sure and even though having capacity nothing is given in love marriages even though court has given right in half property to girl. So it is very much complex social issue. i am sure determination and serious thinking is necessary from both the parties if they want to enjoy long lasting relationship. Mostly girls are prepared in that way from child hood by parent and still they consider burden it is true.I have two daughters only no boy but I am very much happy with them. i list bother for old age and will be definitely not depend on them after their marriage. You know surprisingly in my marriage when I suggested court marriage to reduce expenditure ,a question was raised about my fitness in all sense as why I recommend that by their some relatives? so it is complex one …..Thanks
Well, I suggest instead of reducing human emotions to insurance contracts, t creating society s without fears about the basic needs , who would allow after all human dignity and freedom of thoughts instead of class divided wealth systems were the most live in fear to fall out of their own cast, and even the wealthiest live under the slavery of increasing plus value…even through marriages.
Arranged marriages are a sign in what kind of immaturity people are kept to pretend to accept the game expected from them.
No emotional adult person would allow anybody to determinate with whom one wants to live and share such an intimate situation like sexuality (as long it is about a free mutual agreement under adults).
This points towards a tribal society based on deals who as summit of the hypocrisy have to look as pretend care , not towards a democracy who requires individual freedom as base of the own decisions.
Not even a year into marriage, and i am already feeling depressed being married to this person whom i loved for almost 8 yrs. Axinia please help me, i just feel he doesnt respect or care for me. also, i am not in a state to get out of it as it will upset my parents a lot. what do i do? i just feel death is the only resolution to get rid of it. but i dont dare to suicide, i just pray everyday to grant me death so that i can take rebirth and start living a fresh life
Dear Help
Running away is not a solution.
First thing You introspect yourself come down to earth about expectation and then see around that where exactly goes wrong. either you change yourself in expected norm or try to change environment within your limit in favorable condition. you cant expect that next person should change according to your wish, some times he may not?
second thing you can freely talk with your husband about disharmony and try to find out solution from their.
third thing you can take help of professional councilor if possible.he may give supportive psychotherapy ( Small small tips which enhance life situations which you find difficult to manage)
You have not mention reasons for depression but whatever may be cause depression more than six month you can definitely seek medical advice from psychiatric experts . Mood elevator can change scenario.
most importantly trust yourself . you and you only can change whole scenario,nobody others.!!!
Thanks
Axinia sorry if i have violated your right to answer. you can edit if needed.
Dear unknown Friend,
sorry to hear that about your situation. Alas, love is not always the best ingredient for a happy marriage, a marraige is a great test where all things come up in their true light and sometimes it is rather dissapointing.
I don’t think I am in any position to help you, exept for my good will and best wishes.
However I see two ways out for you here: either you dedice to work hard on it and try to find out WHY the person does’t respect or care for you? What’ the real reason for it? when you found the real reason, there can be some ways to change the situation, although this might demand lots of time and effort, hard work …but this can altimately give beautiful results. Any relationship requires a soul work, and we are placed in such sitiations to recognize it and do our best. Unless and until you suffer from home violence (hopefully not!), there is no reason to give up working on your marriage.
The other way would be still to divorce, and if the quiestion for you either ot upset your parents or to die, then I think upsetting perents is less harm than dying.
In my case I learned a tought lesson out of my first marraige and now I am enjoying the bliss of the second one. So happiness IS POSSIBLE 🙂 But mostly only after we learn a lesson…
Thank you Mahesh and Axinia. I was under the false impression that love is the only ingredient for marriage. now i totally understand, that there are other factors that are also needed. And yes Mahesh bhaiya, running away is not a solution. I think i expected everything to be perfect around me rather than introspecting myself. Your honest replies have truly encouraged me to put my efforts in making things work than running away. I do love him dearly and i think its wrong to just let go someone so easily at the slightest hint of issues. I cant thank u both enough for you guidance. may god bless u. Thank you
great to hear that, Help! I am sure with such an attitude you will manage. A maariage is such an exquisite dish which containts of a rich variaety of ingredients. And indeed, love is only one of them. The other ones which i (and studies) foudn important are common value system, common interest, desire to move into one and the same direction, common friends, ets…
I knew a couple who was very much in love with each other, but the only thing they could do is…to watch TV together, because they had no other common intrests, no common friends, totaly opposite views on live and different value system. That relationship, although based of a beautiful love, lasted for only 3 years, then they saw that this is not going anywhere.
…….Any relationship requires a soul work, and we are placed in such sitiations to recognize it and do our best. …..
Axinia really nice one and very true. It has very broad back and fore ground which every one should understand and behave. It is always better to understand purpose of life /leaving and the early will understand the early we start enjoying life….
thanks
Axinia and of course dear unknown sister Help. May Mother bless you and give courage and vision to understand and face the reality.
And now that we heard to song of fullfilling marriage, may I ad that our specie is not monogamous by nature and that culture is about free choices of life and not one hair cut for all.Imposing lifestyles to everybody for obvious comfort reasons is a faible of the petite bourgoisie ,but the hypocritical backside is mostly as visible as each arbitrary moral concept dividing a city in good and bad quarters.
I highly doubt too that any parent on this planet would prefer the death of a child to a non fulfilment of a certain society convention.
If this is not the case, we can question the value of such a dehumanised society.
an interesting article in Russian: “Великая депрессия
”
http://www.kommersant.ru/doc.aspx?DocsID=1581073
(can be read via Google translate)
Agree with you, Axinia. According to my own experience, severe depression can be overcome by going out and opening yourself to the world. But sometimes it seems to me there is no remedy when a person is depressed for no obvious reason.
Maybe someone is depressed because of reasons his environment and the person herself does not want to acknowledge.That does not mean, that the reasons don’t exist.
it’s true, there is always a reason for anything. And we are not always able to find it out.
Recipe for depression :
Just like yours, mine was also a divorce except that in my case neither the divorce nor the marriage was solemnised 🙂 . This bit left me a bit lovelorn and greatly puzzled but I sustained well through my love notably for SMJ, certain people in Austria and in Delhi, and my brother’s children.
Then, on the Diwali Puja day in 1995 in Nargol, I had an unsolicited but much needed audience with the Mother who blessed the fairly unknown and low profiled me. Sitting at touching distance for about ten minutes and receiving immense love, I chatted with her one to one like a child to his mother [Among other things she asked me about what had just happened and I reported to her the prelude that some Indian girl, young, well dressed, had committed suicide by drowning into the sea (someone said she was married ‘outside’)].
That audience with SMJ left me secretly elated, confident, resolved, converted, instrumentalised and surrendered even as I found myself privileged only to be soon proved contrary at least in temporal terms.
…My brother’s family moved from Delhi on a transfer, all relationships even with Indian S/Yogis waned, my babe married another without notice (Well, that’s the fate of an ordinary, simple and a broke bloke but “why did it have to be me?” *), bank balance depleted and perhaps also the spiritual practice, In brief, I had only bad luck at all fronts. This continuing situation despite my righteous and virtuous stand was so flabbergasting, threatening and challenging that I had to find a ‘recipe’ for the sake of survival and sanity which I found in FRIVOLITY – that means never letting anything or anybody, however much big or small, become too big for you. Like we used to say in college, “FTW!”.
I say it in all sincerity and frivolity 😉
Frivolously yours,
With love,
* http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x3T05DpgUvU&feature=related 🙂
“Not sure I understood what your blog was all about…” is many a comment I received in my mailbox to the blog/post above.
Well, what I mean to say is that, try frivolity when things become too weird for words, get down to brass tacks from the lofty plateaus of spirituality; have no awe of awesome or awful; maintain equanimity in case of pain and gain, both; become frivolous like a child and make a mockery of everything and everybody including yourself (for it’s all maya. Isn’t it?). And believe me, when you can do that you’ll get to know a lot of truth in bonus to being able to survive the pitfalls of spirituality. That’s my antidote to depression which worked to a large extent.
And yes, “FTW” is the motto meaning, ‘Forget the World!’ (or, in more decent terms, ‘F*** the World!’’.
😉
Hi Axinia! Very insightful blog!
I had read bits here and there of a previous marriage in your blog but in this post, actually learned more about it in your one comment. I’m surprised in the sense that it seems like you have had some hardships and yet, to this day you remain (seemingly, from reading your blog) happy and calm.
You said that it took you three years to finally overcome the divorce. If it’s not too personal, how did you finally overcome the divorce? And, what advice would you give those who are in a divorce or broke up (not married)?
I am curious because I have never read this topic in your blog :))
hi Mae, that’s a good question…I think the main thing which helped me to overcome the divorce was my spiritual practice of meditation (sahaja yoga), on the blog I mention it several times. OF course time also heels, but meditaiton and the working of KUNDALINI energy is what causes total regeneraiton and grings all peace and joy to my heart. Please check the site http://www.freemeditation.com/sahaja-yoga/
I admit – I ask my previous question for a reason. I was trying to get over an old relationship. I do not practice Sahaja, I do something a bit different but it is also dealing with chakras and balancing energy. I almost am over this old relationship! I see that it was not so good for me, as I thought.
I wonder – would you be willing to share your story with others? Why did you divorce? (if not personal) I think that your story will help many others like myself. You are a wonderful lady!
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