1000 petals by axinia

the only truth I know is my own experience

A basic income guarantee – a dream or a future reality? August 18, 2010

The idea of a basic income guarantee is getting popular. In case you have not heard about it yet, a basic income guarantee (or basic income) is a proposed system of social security, that periodically provides each citizen with a sum of money that allows the receiver to participate in society with human dignity. In contrast to income redistribution between nations themselves, the phrase basic income defines payments to individuals rather than households, groups, or nations, in order to provide for individual basic human needs. Except for citizenship, a basic income is entirely unconditional.

In Germany they speak about 500 or even 1000 € monthly unconditional income for everyone.

 What are the arguments?

One of the arguments for a basic income was articulated by the French Economist and Philosopher André Gorz:

The connection between more and better has been broken; our needs for many products and services are already more than adequately met, and many of our as-yet-unsatisfied needs will be met not by producing more, but by producing differently, producing other things, or even producing less. This is especially true as regards our needs for air, water, space, silence, beauty, time and human contact…
From the point where it takes only 1,000 hours per year or 20,000 to 30,000 hours per lifetime to create an amount of wealth equal to or greater than the amount we create at the present time in 1,600 hours per year or 40,000 to 50,000 hours in a working life, we must all be able to obtain a real income equal to or higher than our current salaries in exchange for a greatly reduced quantity of work…
Neither is it true any longer that the more each individual works, the better off everyone will be. The present crisis has stimulated technological change of an unprecedented scale and speed: ‘the micro-chip revolution’. The object and indeed the effect of this revolution has been to make rapidly increasing savings in labour, in the industrial, administrative and service sectors. Increasing production is secured in these sectors by decreasing amounts of labour. As a result, the social process of production no longer needs everyone to work in it on a full-time basis. The work ethic ceases to be viable in such a situation and work-based society is thrown into crisis (André Gorz, Critique of economic Reason, Gallile, 1989).

The Basic Income Earth Network (BIEN) describes one of the benefits of a basic income as having a lower overall cost than that of the current means-tested social welfare benefits. However critics have pointed out the potential work disincentives created by such a program, and have cast doubts over its ability to be implemented. In later years, BIEN has made several fully financed proposals.

Today there are already some examples of partial implementation of the idea:

1) The U.S. State of Alaska has a system which provides each citizen with a share of the state’s oil revenues, although this amount is not necessarily enough to live on. The U.S. also has an Earned income tax credit for low-income taxpayers. In 2006 a bill written by members of the advocacy organization USBIG to transform the credit into a partial basic income was introduced in the US Congress but did not pass.

2)The city of Dauphin, Manitoba, Canada took part in an experimental basic income program (“Mincome“) between 1974 and 1979.

3)In 2008, a pilot project with a basic income grant was started in the Namibian village of Omitara by the Namibian Basic Income Grant Coalition. After six months the project has been found to significantly reduce child malnutrition and increase school attendance. It was also found to increase the community’s income significantly above the actual amount from the grants as it allowed citizens to partake in more productive economic activities.

Can a state really survive with such a system and where the fundings will come from?

There is a wide variety of proposals around. They differ according to the amounts involved, the source of funding, the nature and size of the reductions in other transfers, and along many other dimensions. As far as short-term proposals are concerned, however, the current discussion is focusing increasingly on so-called partial basic income schemes which would not be full substitutes for present guaranteed income schemes but would provide a low – and slowly increasing – basis to which other incomes, including the remaining social security benefits and means-tested guaranteed income supplements, could be added.
Many prominent European social scientists have now come out in favour of basic income – among them two Nobel laureates in economics. In a few countries some major politicians, including from parties in government, are also beginning to stick their necks out in support of it. At the same time, the relevant literature – on the economic, ethical, political and legal aspects – is gradually expanding and those promoting the idea, or just interested in it, in various European countries and across the world have started organizing into an active network.

The concept of basic, or guaranteed income in the form of social provision, was foreshadowed by Karl Marx, who came to the conclusion that as the productive forces increased, along with automated production, the need for unskilled labor would diminish, eventually leading to a situation in which work would be divided among all members of society (solving the issue of unemployment in capitalism) as it is gradually reduced, emancipating labor from the need to engage in long and alienating work. Marx referred to this stage as Upper-stage communism, where goods and services (rather than income) would be provided free of charge. Other socialist authors, such as Bertrand Russell, envisioned four-hour workdays in a future socialist society.

I do hope that one day the humanity will come to this system, because the amount of unnecessary work most of us are doing is truly absurd.

LOVE, axinia


56 Responses to “A basic income guarantee – a dream or a future reality?”

  1. A MUST for a basic democracy.

    The old cynicism is killing humanity.

  2. Terry Says:

    In the US we frame economic rights in terms of the right to employment, not the right to income. The measurement of economic health is the level of unemployment, not income levels. A person with low income receives access to basic services like food, shelter, healthcare and education through a combination of social and private funding. Of course too many fall through this net, but our primary goal is to provide employment to anyone rather than income. And a fully employed person here expects to work 40 hours a week. This is an entirely different way to frame basic human needs.

    If you ask someone about themselves, the first thing they will tell you is about their work. Americans define their lives primarily in terms of work. I remember when I grew up my mother had a distaste for the word housewife because it seemed demeaning to her–implying that she was not working. That has changed but it gives an idea of the importance of work as a measure of self worth.

    If 40 hours of work a week is considered normal, a very successful person expects to work 60 hours a week. To qualify as a workaholic you would have to work much more than 60 hours a week. I think Americans would be absolutely lost psychologically if normal work was four hours a day. At four hours a day Americans would all want two jobs.

    Are we crazy? As a culture we would not know how to use the extra four hours and would probably anesthetize ourselves with television and beer or spend four more hours online interacting with others or learning something. The most inspired of us would do something entrepreneurial, which is the same as going to work. I believe most Americans think of themselves as spiritual (in a Christian sense primarily), but we would be unlikely to invest the free four hours a day in pursuit of spiritual experience.

    So, we need someone to explain to us why working this much is undesirable. I am not being facetious. We would support a basic income level enthusiastically, but we would equate working less with being lazy and as a culture we would not support a system that encouraged laziness. That is just how we define life.

    Even the Alaskan system mentioned was developed as a way to give people a bonus based on a shared interest in the natural resources of the state. I know many Alaskans very well and they do not consider that money to be income, but an unusual form of a dividend from shared ownership. If it was enough to live on for a year, very few Alaskans would not want to work 40 hours a week anyway.

    • axinia Says:

      Thank Terry, this is really strange for me to hear 🙂 Apprecntly this attitude to work comes from Protestantic culture, right? If it is THAT deep grounded in the collective unconsiousness, then obviously it will be not easy to unerstand why live differntly…
      In Austria everyone aought at Americans 🙂 Austrians say they work in oder to live and not live in order to work…Are they lazy? Yes, you can call it so, but they have managed to create awonderufl cosy place with a high living standart even not bein workholics. It’s possible!

      Surely, if such a system would be introduced somewhere else (say in Europe) most of the people will feel relaxed and take to their hobbies, families, personal development (this is what Europeans love to do most). But at some point I am sure evryone would love to do some work as well, not 40 hours week, may be 20…
      I would definitely NOT work 40 hours…because there is really no need.

      • Terry Says:

        I don’t think the 40 hours is filled with work, and the flow of work has a sense of human scale and interaction to it. What troubles Americans is hearing how for example a French bureaucrat purposely delays work so that that he or she can sit around doing nothing and there is no loss. Americans are results oriented and therefore appear to be in a hurry and a little neurotic. You are right that this has been blamed on a Protestant ethic by academics but the Japanese are similar and one does not hear about a Shinto or Buddhist ethic. I have had the pleasure of working with Chinese (Taiwan) and they make Americans look lazy. But aside from a few examples like you, I have not met many people who use their time outside of work any more productively or enjoyably as inside of work, so the incentive for free time has no real payoff here. Even people in factories where the work can be numbing go to work every day to feel worthy and to interact with their work community. The way to show Americans or Asians that work is not the highest level of fulfillment is to make the higher levels tangible and achievable. Having hobbies and enjoying family are already part of the deal, so you have to go much higher than that. All the spiritual luminaries who have achieved worldwide recognition combined have yet to move a significant number of people in that higher direction. But that is no doubt due to the quality of this age and only when a new age dawns will that happen easily. Meanwhile these higher goals seem to be an individual pursuit. Yes to guarantee a basic income will valuable to a small percentage of Americans. To guarantee a job will be welcomed by all of them. To guarantee spiritual fulfillment will get a yawn or a fight.

        • axinia Says:

          Teryy, a really great input! Well, it will take time…

          An yet, I wonder if I live in a very much different world? I know so many people here who are dreaming about leaving the boring job, yet having some income and finally taking to something really meaningful like their own creative projects and personal development. it’s a big surprise for me that, as you say, it will not be a dream of an American. I tought this is kind of…universal, human, natural…

          Anways, thanks a lot for this info. 🙂

          • Terry Says:

            Well, it is a universal dream, and the place where it can be fulfilled is the Internet as you demonstrate. YouTube makes everyone a filmmaker. Everyone can be whatever they want on the Internet and probably find someone who likes their dream as much as they do. Not only that but they can cover the globe like you do.

            I think there are many people who say they are bored at their jobs but the reason is more inside them than part of the job. The Internet is the perfect creative outlet for them to feel better about themselves and stop complaining about the job. The beauty of this solution is that the Internet is totally unregulated–with the exception of some censorship. If people feel confined by their jobs, let them explore what to do with completely unrestricted freedom. Some hours a day they have little say in what they do, and some hours a day they have all the say in what they do. That’s a fair balance.

            • axinia Says:

              In my case, I equally like my job and what I do outside of my job – how about that? 🙂 Probably I am just a lucky person that I was give sucha wonderful job…. The problem with boring jobs is that most of them are unnesessary and give really nothing to humanity. I have a theory why it’s ahrd to find a great sales person – just because we don’t need sales people much! 🙂 Whaever people really need, they don’t have to be told to buy it. Thy willl buy anyway, wont’ they?

              Basically nature creates people of talents which are really required by mankind. But because of the current economical system most of us have to do something which they are not born for and what nobody really needs…that’s the main reason for common job frustration, I guess.

              • Terry Says:

                You could broaden your view of the role of sales. So many people assume that a salesperson’s role is to convince you to buy something you don’t need, but while that is still common practice, the role is changing dramatically. We need to make so many decisions about complex products and services. The true professional sales person wants the customer to make an informed decision and takes on the role of advisor–on the customer’s side. I consult with high end sales people and can make two observations with confidence. One is that they are honorable people who treat their clients with great respect. The other is that this ability is genetic and only a small percentage of the population will succeed at that professional level.

              • John Lee Says:

                Axinia, my apologies for butting in your conversation with Terry, but I believe you deserve a second opinion. First off, I am a Chinese. As Terry mentioned, the way Chinese works makes Americans look lazy on the hindsight. That’s pretty much true regardless of where the Chinese are from. But this doesn’t mean that they like it. Trust me, nobody like to work their sanity off while at the same time not being the ultimate beneficiary of their own hard work. Does waking up before the sun rises, sticking yourself up in one place, and then coming back when the sun sets seem like a life fulfilled experience to you? How about doing this everyday except weekends? I, and also every Chinese I know, including people in senior management, do not like this idea at all, regardless of how well paid we are.

                I believe what we have seen in Terry’s reply, is a much larger social problem. This problem is dominant in Anglosphere countries, as well as developing nations that want to imitate America. I call this problem ‘political correctness’. Some examples would be ‘I like my job very much’, ‘always have an african or asian in media representation for the sake of diversity’, etc. It is a society norm to be politically correct. Most people look like one, but deep down in their hearts they aren’t.

                If you have lived in the countries I mentioned above, then I strongly believe you would have experienced first hand, the coldness and cynicism of the people there. I, for one, am looking forward to taste the essence of life in one of the European countries, Russia, or FSU countries.

                • axinia Says:

                  Many thanks, John, it’s always very useful to hear some other side. And the Chinese experience is unique in any way.

                  • mahesh chendake Says:

                    Axinia, 40hrs/week is not enough for us to workand get enough for survival / tomaintain standerd of leaving,specially those who are working as permanant staff as a middle level manenger. so to upbring ourselves we have to work more may be in different feild possible, e.g.insurance,trading etc . so literally no time left to rest also. even though it is needed we cant give enough time to family as wellas self development. still I have not included those who are not having any job or not doing.
                    current changing policies sais there is no pention to even govt . worker so uestion of privetsector. I always worries, what about after 60.even expencee/inflation will increase. so one can manage how? If he has not save enough. even knowing importantance also one can not save enough.
                    so your idea definately sound but i am not sure whethere it will work or not at least every seniour citiso’s responsibility should be taken by somebody may be NGO’s but such definate system should be there.
                    nobody like to work its OK. but 4 hours workinga day is not enough what i feel .personality development including spirituality and some social concern everybody should have. at least one shuld take care of old parents . surprisingly i read another article telling this current genration at list those shows concern litterally suffering due to social burdon of children and old from same family as life expectancy is increased and that group is economically handicapted so no income and become burdon to family. so they dont have time to live themselves even though understands its importance. there is no way to escape from it also so sume social reform definately needed

    • “it gives an idea of the importance of work as a measure of self worth.”

      What it really gives is a picture of complicity to brutal propaganda for 300 years since that serial killer and sexual predator John Calvin, the father of the “work ethic” decided that “the damned must police each other.” Strict obedience was de rigueur, and Calvin recommended the death penalty for disobedient children. The USA was founded by Puritans, remember, good Christians who flogged disobedient teens in public squares. Americans, especially the lower classes, threatened with unbearable stigma as the only alternative, exhibit the Stockholm syndrome in their identification with their lousy jobs. But many, especially youth, are waking up. 300 years of brutal generational trauma produced a society fantasy-bonded to abusive parent figures, defending their slavery while the Big Daddy bankers and financiers, aided by politicians, took home trillions– enough to free us all, and profoundly wounded the living earth in the process. Yes sir, freed people might “spend four more hours online interacting with others or learning something.” Then they would move to unite with millions for funamental changes in this age of technologically available abundance for all.

      –Jack Saturday

  3. 😯 😯

    Axinia dear, I’m sorry that I’ll have to be unpleasantly frank 😦 , but I see this as a recipe for disaster 😯 This is sure to lead to a catastrophe of decadence on hitherto unimaginable proportions 😮

    This sounds like soft-communism to me – one that has been designed to eventually lead to the totalitarian crap of the deadly plague called communism 👿

    That such an idea was foreseen by Karl Marx as “upper stage communism” only confirms my suspicions that it is a stepping stone to the eventual arrival of the dreaded disease called totalitarian communism.

    I do hope that one day the humanity will come to this system,…

    Unfortunately, Axinia, many people assume that all of humankind is exactly the same, and that what works for one human society will work for every other society on the planet. In other words, they think that a dreamy, theoretical, one-size-fits-all model is going to automatically solve all the world’s problems, since we are all humans in the end, correct?

    The dreamy theoreticians who design these models could not be more wrong! They forget a simple fact of life – one that many will find difficult to acknowledge, but is the plain truth – all human societies are NOT the same! Period.

    Biologically, all hominoids can perhaps still be classified as a single species, but for all practical purposes, humankind has already split into a few sub-species. The Homo sapiens sapiens is supposed to represent humankind – the current state of evolution of the thinking hominoids. Let’s give that nomenclature to the civilised societies of the world. The civilised people form only a small percentage of the world population and have actually begun to decline even in terms of absolute numbers.

    Funnily, what works for one group of civilised Homo sapiens sapiens may not even work for another group of equally civilised people living a few thousand kilometres away. Then how can one expect or even dream of it working for all the uncouth, unevolved, regressive, rapidly overbreeding hordes such as the Homo savagensis turdworldensis, the Homo criminalii hindoides, the Homo feudalicus barbaroides and other mediaeval hordes???


    • axinia Says:

      Well, Raj, idealists like me want to see ideal world everywhere and not in one particular country. I know that reaching a certain stage of awareness, every human being starts realizing that work and money is far not satisfiying one’s needs. As some point the spiritual quest arises…today this spiritual quest is mostly manifested in the desire for self-development which enjoys a grouwingpopularity in the West, especially in Europe.
      Again, it is evolution-proved that first people have to have their basic need satisfied. I know what you mean by swearing at the poor India – when most of people live in uncomfortable material conditions, of cause they cannot think of high matters.
      However I not only belive that this “upper stage communism” is a good thing, I am also sure that finally the mankind will come to this form – some sooner, some later. That’s evolution.

      • Terry Says:

        I have had access to three individuals that I consider gurus and certainly at a high level of personal evolution–all from India. While there is a running debate about what is good and bad about communism and capitalism and the ideal form of government and society on this site, all three of these men said that the natural form of government was the Vedic monarchy and a division of four natural classes as specified in Vedic teachings. I wonder if we are missing something from a spiritual perspective in this discussion.

        • If ever there was a system of government that can be described as putrid, rotten, decadent, stinking, sub-human, sewery filth, then it has got to be the shit, yes, SHIT of “Vedic monarchy” 👿 and the stinking sewery caste system derived out of the filthy crap, yes, CRAP specified in the so-called “Vedic teachings” 😡

          The barbaric, sewery caste system is the reason why the stinking Indian sub-continent is such a filthy, sub-human crap hole and the hordes and hordes of savages who (over)populate this turdy part of the world remain such regressive, pea-brained, feudal-minded, uncouth hominoid creatures to this very day!

          Oh, my “God”! 😯 To my horror of horrors, I realise what kind of “gurus” the filthy Indian crap hole of an empire has been exporting to the civilised societies 😯 What’s worse, I realise the extent to which clueless, gullible people from the civilised have fallen/are falling for this 😯

          Goodness gracious! 😯 And I was silly enough to believe it was only the hordes of the uncouth Indian sub-continent, with their tiny regressive pea-brains numbed for millenia by the filth of Hindoid “culture”, the sewery, inhuman caste system, facing a perpetually harsh, hopeless, destitution-level existence, too economically disadvantaged to even satisfy their hunger, too illiterate and mediaeval to give up their turdy blind beliefs, who were naive and gullible enough to fall for the “spiritual” experiences offered by these so-called “gurus”.

          How silly I have been! 😦 I had not realised the seriousness of the issue at all 😯 When our dear friend Dave described the extent to which people of civilised societies often fall to the crooked “gurus” in the “business”, I had just assumed the normal hard-working people wanted some respite from their daily monotonous life and were willing to try what they saw as some exotic “spiritual experience” from a far-off land brought to them by seemingly innocent-looking, saffron-robe wearing “gurus” that promised them a supposedly more “holistic” and “spiritual” view of life as opposed to the so-called “materialistic” experieces they were tricked into believing they led.

          Boy, was I wrong! And how! 😯 I now understand the extent to which people have been conned by this fake “spirituality” business run by these crooked, unscrupulous, primitive, regressive, bogus “gurus” from the filthy turd world shit hole called the evil Indian empire. No matter how uncouth, filthy, inhuman, turdy and evil something actually is and has proven to be, it must be “natural” and “spiritual” just because some self-proclaimed “guru” wearing a saffron robe, surrounded (and worshipped) by a few dedicated “followers” and practising the “business” for a while in the West told one so 😯

          What next 😕 Are the hordes of gullible, clueless people in the West naive enough to fall for and get deceived by these uncouth, crooked “gurus” going to push their own female relatives into the graves of their deceased husbands and kill them by burying them alive??? Just because some crooked, uncouth, devious scoundrel wearing a saffron robe and calling himself a “guru” told them that it is “natural” and “spiritual” for a woman to commit “sati” or be forced to do it, since it has been specified in some crappy toilet paper roll proclaimed as a “holy book” by some primitive barbarian in the filthy, stinking, sub-human Hindoid “culture”??? 😡 😯

          Cher Dave, if you are reading this, tell me that the extent to which I believe people have fallen for and have been conned by these crooked, wicked, scheming, unscrupulous “gurus” from the uncouth Indian sub-continent in the “spirituality business” in the West is not what I believe it is, please? 😦

          I would hate to hear that hordes of innocent, clueless people in the West who believe they are getting to experience something “spiritual” from such devious “gurus” get tricked, get their pockets and purses completely emptied of their hard-earned money and get their minds utterly poisoned by the turdy crap of uncouth Hindoid “culture” peddled by these unscrupulous, sleazy, self-proclaimed “gurus” from the savage Indian sub-continent in such a blatant and obnoxious manner! 😮

          What is the world coming to 😕

          • Terry Says:

            You put yourself in the unenviable position of proving a negative. The only proof you offer is that anyone who follows a guru is by definition stupid. I admit that your passion is impressive in a twisted way but your proof is, well, stupid.

            • I was not trying to prove anything as there is absolutely nothing to prove here. So if you found my supposed “proof” (which is nothing but a fine product of YOUR own imagination) stupid, then so be it! 🙂

              Certainly not everyone who follows a guru is “stupid”. In case you were not aware, in my part of the world, almost every month a self-proclaimed “guru” makes the headlines, of course in a twisted sort of way 😈 These seemingly “spiritual” gentlemen, wearing a modest saffron/yellow/red robe with standard “guru” accessories, with a legion of devoted “followers” sitting at their feet, and professing to take “spirituality”/confer “divine wisdom” on the ordinary masses, find themselves in the dock very often – for crimes ranging from outright murder, rape, sexual assault, paedophilia, kidnapping, drug dealing etc. not to speak of less heinous crimes like extortion, fraud, looting, deception, cheating, forgery, property-grabbing and a range of others. The victims are mostly the ones who were naive enough to trust and blindly believe every word emanating from the mouths of these “spirituality” peddling crooks and con-artists.

              Would I hate or dislike the victims? Never – they are like children whose innocence must not be destroyed by those hyenas looking to prey upon the naive, trusting souls who get conned easily by fake, assumed, deceptive appearances and promises of experiencing the “spiritual”, “divine”, “liberating”, “esoteric”, “tantric”, “oriental”, “enlightened” experiences and wisdom.

              I was silly enough to seriously underestimate 😯 the geographical and cultural reach of some of these sleazy, perverted, unscrupulous, self-proclaimed “spirituality” peddlers and the sheer size of their nets to trap potential victims cutting across boundaries, continents, cultures, religions, and ages 😐


              • Terry Says:

                By the same token, my experience is my experience and requires no proof. Your implication that I am more likely a victim of fraud than capable of spiritual knowledge is a fair challenge and requires no answer. But if you defame my teacher, you have to expect me to attack you. It may be unenlightened and even childish of me, but I would do the same to protect the reputation of anyone I love. Wouldn’t you? And by the way I agree with your political and economic opinions, though you overrate civilized cultures.

                • First, I’m not trying to defame your teacher or destroy his reputation. I don’t even know who he is in the first place (and have no intention of doing so either).

                  And I’m not implying that you are a victim of fraud, childish or incapable of spiritual knowledge. Far from it. Perhaps it appeared that way because I may have over-reacted in my comments, and I’m sorry if I did.

                  I was only trying to vehemently disagree with you (or rather, your guru/gurus) about the sheer filth of the sewery caste system and the “Vedic monarchies” being a “natural” form of gubmint. Those inhuman, primitive, turdy, barbaric, filth concepts are nothing but bags of stinking shit (thousands of times worse than even communism and feudalism) and I’m willing to repeat the same anytime and anywhere, even directly to your gurus, whoever or how much ever enlightened they may be.

                  Make no mistake, even if Jesus Christ (whom I revere above any other Earthling, Alien or Celestial Being) were to suddenly appear out of thin air in front of me and say what you suggested, I would still flatly tell Him the same thing! Period. (I’m not suggesting that He would ever say such a thing or even apparate in front of an undesirable like me, but just in case – in order to clear any doubts.)

                  So, it’s nothing personal and no hard feelings at all 😐

                  About economics and politics – well, I guess I sometimes do overrate the civilised cultures, just as quite a few of you sometimes (grossly) overrate the “spiritual” aspects of the uncouth cultures.

                  As they say, may be the grass does appear greener on the other side to everyone, wherever we are 😉


                  • Terry Says:

                    I know you were not attacking me or my teachers, and for the record I have left those relationships behind, but that was one inference to draw from your response. As to the monarchy form of government, it lasted thousands of years everywhere humans existed and everywhere kept to the same basic class (as opposed to caste) structure. I don’t think that was a conspiracy. If you give me only a choice between pure democracy and pure communism, pure capitalism and pure socialism, you and I would make the same choice for the same reasons. But if you threw in pure monarchy I might think it over longer. Democracy and capitalism need a very high level of personal integrity to thrive and seem like a bad bet in most cultures. I like the idea of one great leader with integrity for all.

                    This is blog discussion. No apologies are required for either opinions or exaggeration. It is all good natured play.

                  • Absolute monarchies are an absolutely uncouth, crappy form of gubmint, concentrating all power in the hands of a single individual (and his/her cronies). The more power concentrates somewhere, the more corrupt and evil it becomes and the easier it is to manipulate. Consider the out-of-control feral gubmint (in D.C.) of the American empire. Despite the superb US constitution that makes it as clear as possible that its citizens’ rights are inborn and cannot be taken away by anything or anyone, and asking the feral gubmint in D.C. to mind its own limited business, successive feral gubmints have appropriated, grabbed and concentrated more and more power with the crooked scoundrels in D.C. and have taken away citizens’ inborn rights to the extent where the USA ceased to be a free country long ago. Its citizens have about as much rights and freedoms as those of a turd world shit hole today.

                    Of course, in a typical turd world shit hole of an evil empire like India, the situation was always much worse. Cursed with a stinking “constitution” which does not even understand what the meaning of “rights” and “freedoms” are, and cursed with a humungous, ever-expanding mass of illiterate and semi-literate, pea-brained, feudal-minded Stone Age hominoid creatures who are always eager to lick the filthy arses of the vilest and most crooked scum in the sewery central gubmint, however evil they are and whatever crimes they commit, the turd world savages of the uncouth, evil Indian empire have proven to the world that they have an average IQ of 81 (it’s much less than that, actually) and an EQ (ethical quotient) that’s almost zero or goes into the negative.

                    Absolute monarchies would make the already intolerable situation into living hell, especially in the turd world crap holes of the world. Nepal had an absolute monarchy where the scoundrel who called himself the “king” (and his cronies) made life SO miserable for the already wretched people of the “kingdom”, that they took to the streets with whatever they had in their hands and forced the creature with the “crown” on his head out of his “palace” from which he lorded over everything in the “kingdom”. He and his feudal cronies were very lucky to have been spared the guillotine, a well-deserved fate for all those lowly, inbred “monarchs” who believe they have a “God” given right to own everything and everyone on the lands they claim as their “kingdom”, the “ancestral property” that they supposedly “inherited” only because they happened to be bred by one among the numerous (legitimate and illegitimate) concubines of the previous scoundrel wearing the “crown”.

                    Absolute monarchies deserved to go the way of the dodo with the end of the mediaeval ages. Even the vestigial “constitutional monarchies” are an absolute waste in the 21st century and deserve to become extinct along with all those inbreds claiming the colour of their blood has become “blue” 😆 due to generations and generations of massive inbreeding 😮

                    There is nothing like a Republic which realises that its duty is to ensure that the powers and responsibilities flow out of each and every individual (who IS the sovereign) with inborn, inalienable rights and freedoms and NOT handed down to the individuals from the crooked gubmint scum like giving alms to the dispossessed citizens (who ARE the TRUE sovereigns).

                    The US constitution WAS one of the very, very, very few in the world that originally came as close to this as possible. Alas, successive feral gubmints 👿 in the District of Criminals have completely destroyed it and almost turned it into one of those toilet paper rolls that pass off as “constitutions” of the turd world shit holes of the planet 😦


  4. I know you wont agree, Axinia, but the ideas proposed by this so-called “Basic Income Guarantee” sounds like yet another spoke in the fast spinning wheel of rapid turd worldisation of the civilised societies.

    In Germany they speak about 500 or even 1000 € monthly unconditional income for everyone.

    …so that they can transform one of the most productive, innovative and hard-working civilised societies in the world (think of how completely Germany was deliberately destroyed, punished, brutalised and penalised after each of the two World Wars and despite that, how it took the Germans barely a couple of decades to rise up again on both occasions) into a perpetually decadent society giving free, unconditional and large handouts for everyone for life, thereby completely destroying the work ethic of German society?

    So that they can transform productive, innovative, civilised first world Germans into utterly lazy bums that look to avoid work like the typical turd world hordes and collect the large, unconditional monthly handouts from the gubmint?

    So that they can completely destroy (whatever is left) of the German family system and the Christian ethics of a progressive Western society? So that German men will do nothing but remain idle and while away their time and spend the monthly alms they collect from the gubmint on drugs, alcohol, gambling and other destructive habits? So that one half of German women will do exactly the same as the men mentioned above? And the other half of German women can be turned into rapid breeders, remaining unmarried for life, yet popping out babies at regular intervals in order to collect even more and larger handouts from the gubmint? The more a woman breeds, the more (and better) handouts she and her brood get from the gubmint, you see.

    In due course of time, civilised Germany will be transformed into a typical turd world shit hole. Germans would first become a worthless, decadent, unproductive populace that has given up their inborn rights and freedoms to the all-powerful gubmint that gives out large alms to everyone, becoming ever eager to lick the arses of the corrupt and criminal gubmint crooks and blindly support all their crimes, barbarism, uncouthness and inhuman behaviour. At this stage, Germany would be a totalitarian commie society, with Germans being transformed into neo-slaves to their all powerful, murderous, monopolist feudal lord that owns them completely – the commie gubmint.

    The next stage is easier to predict – the economy would completely collapse with no productive people to support the rapidly increasing hordes of lazy gubmint handout seekers, descending into total crime, anarchy, substance addiction where people drink themselves or consume drugs all the way to death. The only functioning institutions would be the bloated, corrupt and worthless gubmint bureaucracy composed of the vilest criminals & crooks and the armed mercenary thugs looking to forcibly establish the power of the gubmint criminals. Then one would have the criminal megalomaniac oligarchs and the notorious mafia scum beings with ties and links to the gubmint crooks and criminals.

    Wait, hasn’t something eerily similar already happened in certain areas of the world 😉

    Thus, the rapid descent of civilised Germany from being a leading first world society to a decadent second world totalitarian commiecracy to becoming a turd world crapocracy would then be completed 😐

    I hope the Germans are able to see right through this thing called “Basic Income Guarantee” which is nothing but a well-disguised idea to eventually usher in that deadly totalitarian commie plague and then, total and utter devastation and destruction 😯

    Does anyone recollect this:



  5. axinia Says:

    Dear Raj, may be to your surprise, but even without the basic income quarantee, it is walready happening in Germany:”so that they can transform one of the most productive, innovative and hard-working civilised societies in the world (think of how completely Germany was deliberately destroyed, punished, brutalised and penalised after each of the two World Wars and despite that, how it took the Germans barely a couple of decades to rise up again on both occasions) into a perpetually decadent society giving free, unconditional and large handouts for everyone for life, thereby completely destroying the work ethic of German society?”. I keep visitng Germany and I can see it clearly that the Generation 20-40 is already “lost”. They are not intrested in much work, and many young people live on social help (young, intrelligent, healthy ones!) …how can you explain that? Where does this tendency come?

    • Axinia, I’m not against social help per se. Any society that calls itself civilised cannot ignore those who really need help. If it does ignore them, then it cannot call itself civilised. There are genuine categories of people who do need help of some kind or the other.

      Actually only a very small percentage of people need permanent help like the very old, the infirm (physical and mental), the terminally ill etc. Some categories of people need only temporary or occasional help to extricate themselves from bad times. What is necessary though, to most others, is a system of ENABLING them to support themselves.

      People who need enabling find it demeaning and dehumanising if one thinks they need “help” or pities them for their condition. They don’t want “help” and they certainly don’t want any pity. All they need is enabling them to help themselves. Self-help is the best help after all.

      Such a mindset can be inculcated only in societies where everyone can exercise their inborn and inalienable rights and freedoms. Each and every individual is the sovereign and NOT the gubmint/the empire/the “people”/ “God”/the corporations/the “majority”/the mercenaries/the crimnal goons etc. It is an inborn and inalienable human right. The gubmint is actually a servant to the sovereign individuals in a civilised society. Of course, in the turd world shit holes (over)populated by pea-brained savages, the filthy gubmints/kings/dictators/bureaucratic vermin/mercenary thugs blatantly and criminally usurp the inborn sovereign rights of the individuals and reduce the true sovereigns (the individuals) to the level of neo-serfs and neo-slaves. Being mediaeval barbarians, the turd world hordes cannot get this simple thing into their tiny pea-brains.

      That is the reason why “the powers that be” (TPTB) that control the world love the filthy turd world model. That is why they aim to turd worldise the first world and not first worldise the lowly, uncouth turd world. But how can they do this to the civilised societies whose people have tasted and enjoyed freedom and are not stupid enough to willing to give up their inborn rights and freedoms to criminals in the gubmint and other assorted “elite” vermin?

      They can only do it indirectly. Like they are doing now. By promoting the nauseating idea that the gubmint is actually their master and that they need to give up their rights and freedoms and ask no questions so that the all-powerful, feudal lordish gubmint can “take care” of them. Indeed, if this continues unabated, the civilised people will find themselves being “taken care of” – in Gulags, FEMA death camps, correctional facilities, mental asylums and gas chambers 😯 How nice it would be for TPTB to retain all the dumbed down, faithfully arse-licking, handout-seeking, alcohol-and-drug-addicted lazy bums willing to gladly sell their souls and let themselves to be branded with the “mark of the beast” and eliminate all those pesky people who ask too many questions.

      Having realised that civilised people tend to breed less and their population eventually begins to naturally drop (which is exactly what is needed for the health of the planet), TPTB promote the mass migration of the rapidly overbreeding hordes from the uncouth parts to the civilised places. Couple that with the transfer and outsourcing of most means of production to the turd world and peddling the “carbon-this-carbon-that” crap along with the vicious propaganda from the filthy, controlled “mainstream media” and the rapid dumbing down of the first world education system into a feral gubmint-controlled “literacy system” of the turd world and you get the recipe of TPTB.

      If this continues, soon there will be no difference between the civilised societies and the lowly, uncouth, barbaric ones.

      The wish of an idealist to see an ideal world everywhere. But what is really happening is just that there won’t be any differences between places. It means that humankind as a whole will regress into the stinking shit pit of the lowly savagery exhibited by the turd world crapocrcies.

      Welcome to the new global turd world! 😐


  6. The Calvinist work ethic leading to the “god shows his satisfaction in the wealth of those hard workers” is absurd .The obsession to be a “good” worker leads to a degradation of the idea of work as natural human expression.Its a division trick between those who still have work and get told “if you don’t accept each abuse, you r out!” and now “feel gifted to have some” ( easy to see the TV propaganda of the “low life losers” versus the “winners” of the best sandwich maker work doing work experience, work for nothing, please the wealthy tourist well!).More trash soaps praising “the good employee” with sentimental up climbing love option.
    Speculation pushing meaningful employment out of entire regions for the sake of lobby&plus value determinism is a poverty to all, and nationalism are just another avoidance seeing the whole mean social and ecological destructing cynical game.
    Lets send the politicians up to china on their bicycle to get “the jobs back”, if THAT would be the bring home to “bounty economy” they promise.

  7. nimirel Says:

    Click to access Basic_Income_-_an_imperative_for_modern_economic_governance.pdf

    Freiheit. Gleichheit. Grundeinkommen….the basic income is being promoted in Germany as the ideal solution to all the labour-market related and socio-political ills plaguing the world’s jaded economies
    Are we ready and do we have the possibility to realize the necessity to work, to choose, to decide and … to live? The answer tells more about the ripeness of a human being, than about anything else, is also a discussion about the emancipation of mankind.
    the importance of action is a very obvious feature of the American culture. In contrast, individuals in collectivistic societies have a stronger tendency to feel that their lives are being controlled by external forces. In cultures with a rigid social order e.g muslim eastern societies, individual has little hope of changing his fate through his own efforts
    I think that utilitarianism has had a formative influence on the American psyche. The consideration of consequences, results, and the
    overall utility of decision and actions is emphasized and thus allows for a
    convergence of virtue and self-interest. This preference for utilitarianism leads to a strong belief in the potential of American capitalism for moral improvement. The belief prevails even in the face of obvious failure and confronts business with normative pressure. American dream follows the logic ‘the failure to reach a certain ideal triggers an even stronger desire to try harder’
    The term “hands-on mentality” shows very well what this quality means. It refers to a way of dealing pragmatically with problems by just doing things instead of talking about possible solutions

    Kant developed a moral theory that is still very influential today in Germany. Anyone who accepts Kant’s moral theory rejects the view that a person’s actions are good or bad based solely on the consequences of those actions. Instead, Kantians emphasize that persons are praised or blamed for their actions based on the intentions with which they act. In other words, the person’s motives are the major factor in determining whether that action is moral.
    Kant’s theory also emphasizes the importance of duty and is
    free of any consideration of utility as it is the case within utilitarianism.
    Therefore, in Germany truly moral behavior often means selfless renunciation.
    Analogous to the American optimism the greater caution in Germany can be – slightly -explained by the traumatic experiences of both world wars. the suffering of such an amount of devastation and upheaval, of hunger and desperation that it is quite understandable that it strongly strives for stability, safety and social security – more in any case than the US do.

    the Puritan work ethic mentioned is something rather unfamiliar tothe majority of the German society although the protestant idea of success as a sign of divine grace also exists in Germany.
    Germans rather tend to develop their theories first and illustrate them with empirical data – a deductive approach whereas Americans mainly chose the opposite way, namely to start with the facts and work their way towards a theory. Germans do not start their activities because they think it might work, but because they have carefully analyzed every aspect of the problem and are sure that the solution they have come up
    with is the right one.

    • axinia Says:

      nimirel: WOWOWOW, what a comment!!
      An exellent, balanced overview, clearly showing why we are where we are..
      I don’t even start with the analysys of Russian psyche because this another, a totally differnt from both Western and Eastern attitudes towards life, business and even spirituality.

      Anyway, 1000 thanks to antiphonsgarden, Terry, Raj and nimirel for this amazing discussion!

  8. I must admit as old “decadent aristo”(some are not as some think some are!) that I think, some have “passed” the run up the summit, and see from this viewpoint the absurdity of the game over the century up to his extreme. What can not be said from a middle class who is STILL obsessed with up climbing games.As long democracy remains the play ball of their petty profit privilege nepotism playing into the cynicism of a self creaming “upper class”,
    those who get abused by such a system, gets mocked and neglect as unworthy “social participants”.
    I don’t think direct democracy will “work” straight ahead, but considering the more than evident failure of the actual system, a time of “learning by doing” should be considered as a part of the process.Directly involved citizen will recognize very fast that “hysterical propaganda pleasing votes” will not “work”, and problems including their solutions will improve the collective wisdom.I deeply trust in the human potential, to “make sense” once each of us is TRULY involved. WE ALL are the “experts” of our life’s, and it is much more difficult to manipulate all all the time, compared to how easy it is to manipulate few lobby puppets careerist politician’s who tries to manipulate us to please the interest of few fat cats.

  9. High time to “care” about the divisive “charity” mentality of a mentally lazy middle class who needs to separate the “worthily” poor and “helpless” they can flatter them self to “help” and those “unworthy lowlifes” they feel morally superior.Our society has NO MORE TIME to cultivate such self flattering bigot Victorian upnoseness, the power of imposing the own moral standard and feeling “gods own justice” in tax deductible “good doing” .
    The POOR pay the MOST tax these days( income tax is not the only tax) and should ask for their money back from a middle/upper class who rips of society out for THEIR petty privileges and nepotist go between “jobs for the boys/girls”.Basic income is CHEAPER than the whole bureaucracy administrating “the poor”.The care of “helpless”(children,older,…) is mostly delegated to institutions from those “who have to make a living” during those who are poor tends often to get even more poor if they care for their relatives AT HOME.Who is the ethical superior finger in that cases.Guess is more easy to point at those few who fail” than at the many who make a choice of heart and provide in so many ways “not pay social work”.

    Instead of more tricky torture occupation for “those down there”,
    REAL resource justice and RESPECT for the human , ALL HUMAN (everybody including!) , to TRULY CARE IN COMMON about the mess we are all exposed to . We as citizen can not let old devastating mind patterns rule the destiny of humankind. That would be suicidal.
    Humans know to evaluate when it is NEEDED.

  10. The “plus values” some suck out of human + ecological resources without thinking about , the way of life too many consider as “their due” living in the “comfort zone” of life, the “jobs” of the next “booming economy” show an inability to link between oneself&the whole.

    This planet/humanity can not afford the “rich” any more, and not even the failing middle class who insist in her crumb picking participation to a thoughtless careless way of life.

  11. I am all for the taoist “chinese expirience”of WU WEI .
    Too bad the Confusian hierachical one is still considered as THE Chinese experience.

    Not all Chinese culture is about fitting the “work hard to be someone” concept.

  12. Niki Says:

    To all of you who’ve posted such great comments and ideas,
    I have nothing else to say, other than to support all your noble intention of creating a better world, and also of your brilliant ideas.
    I will only mention one very powerful line from a recent blockbuster-hit movie, Inception, that basically tells its basic premise: never underestimate the importance of an idea, even the smallest one.
    “An idea is like a virus, resilient, highly contagious, and even the smallest seed of an idea can grow. It can grow to define or destroy you.”

    Go share and spread your ideas, and even better, to ACT bigger upon it,
    for the betterment of the world, our pale blue planet we’re living in.

  13. Niki, this seed has macerated few decades waiting to unfold.
    The time seems ripe.


    I LOVE my work, and have never based my activity on “money” as motivation.The satisfaction of doing what one feels to be here on earth for, is plenty. Once the life base is provided for, humans would express far more their inner creativity, intelligence and skills.
    I wish this freedom to all other human, as work should be the expression of an inner motivation and pleasure instead of a “rat race” game.
    Only unsatisfied humans can be dragged to consume social & ecological resources in a mindless way.
    A caring society requires self loving humans.
    REAL Life quality might save us.

    • mahesh chendake Says:

      I dont deny that but at least basic money requires for survival. one can not ignore that. I also love the work I have and do my best, that is not point. How much you get paid for that and whether that is enough to maintain your need and its shuarity when you are not earning? that is my concern. What I observed people get extracted maximum from . they literally squeeze people and letter thrown away like anything with less wedges that is my concern. i have seen many devotee wasting life for working institution and now no more just waiting for last breath, nobody take cares. and they are alone. Spirituality and money why they cant go together that I dont understand money is not that bad to be untouched. but most of the people dont see even enough and on other

  14. As long a abusive minority pretends to “deserves” the most resources and a middle class aims to behave the same, regardless their impact, we as whole humanity ( those thoughtless people don’t do their own children/grandchildren any good by their divisive greed, the social&ecological backlash will hit EVERYBODY!) are going straight into “no future”.
    Each has to figure out how his life impacts the whole, and find more creative solution not excusing the own participation to the destruction of our all home base.Everything had been said decades ago, but too many “played reactionary safe”+ paradoxically let abusive economy promise them such glitter “solutions.It was not going to work and it still ain’t going to work.WE lost tremendously much time.Its NOW or never!

  15. I always worries, what about after 60… at least every senior citizen’s responsibility should be taken by somebody may be NGO’s but such definite system should be there.

    Dear Maheshsaheb,

    I think the writing is on the wall the wall is very clear. Most people can forget about leading a self-supporting life after retiring at 60, let alone leading a comfortable life (unless one happens to be filthy rich). The evil scum beings who control the stinking sub-human Indian empire have made sure of that. Forget pensions, a typical turd world shit hole like India does not even have a social security system. And as you mentioned, any money saved will be completely worthless at the time of retirement, more so with the global currency presses being run in turbo mode 24 x 7 x 365 on a massive scale now.

    I don’t think NGOs or the gubmint taking care of elderly people is a good idea. It has a small chance of working in the civilised societies, but never in the savage, uncouth ones because they will be treated in a dehumanising manner. Even in the fully paid for “old age homes”, they are treated in a demeaning way and made to feel like they are an unwanted burden on everyone. I just don’t see the idea working in the savage, barbaric parts of the world.


    • mahesh chendake Says:

      that’s what, A basic income guarantee is needed after 60 or even 70 so the person can lead his available life peacefully alone. when physical and mental care needed he can get admitted in old age home.
      There are some example like celebrity people has donated all their wealth to old age home stayed their peacefully till last breath. Social isolation is still inevitable for them but i think even they don’t bother for that. In human angle of any institution is also sometime inevitable in India as every thing they do , they do for earning money rather than social responsibility but some how that can be controlled by keeping visiting and inspecting committee just like mental asylums who includes justice,police, mayor and other.
      Raj u just think of ladies who left alone behind, who dont have any authority,income and totally depend on husbands throughout life. how they lead their life thereafter? any how this dependability should remove.
      Now there are many cases in which children are in abroad and not responding to parent who has given everything to them and now nobody is there to take care and no money also.
      here many incidences are like man has bitten/murdered his mother/parent because they are not giving sign to sale property.
      so seeing all those examples I strongly feel that what Axinia suggest there should be such system for each individual separately may be after 60 /70 and even when they are physically and mentally handicap due to any reason.

      • Such a system for the elderly already exists in the civilised societies of the world, Maheshsaheb. It’s called Social Security in the USA and it may be called by other names in the other civilised parts of the world. I bet Europe has an even more generous system than the one in America, which itself is quite good as it covers a variety of programs meant to act as some kind of permanent income/support/assistance/medical insurance for the retired as well as those who have fallen on hard times. All employees pay a part of their income into the program and that is matched by an equivalent contribution from their employers.

        People pay into the program when they are working. When they retire or suffer from disability or go through a period of unemployment, they receive money/support/medical cover etc. On the surface, it may look like a pyramidal Ponzi scheme along with the usual share of freeloaders who misuse the system and gubmintal corruption, red-tape, inefficiency and waste bogging it down. But it has proved the worth of its existence by helping countless people with a life-and-dignity-saving means of income or support in times of need. Like every civilised concept in the developed societies, its roots can traced right back to the Christian ethic and the message of Christ.

        From what I understand, a system like social security is different from pensions. Pensions may be available only for a minority who have jobs that pays a pension when one retires (unionised workers and others who can collectively bargain for their rights) and not for all (and such jobs in the civilised societies have been declining rapidly due to the deliberate offshoring and outsourcing of jobs to the turd world trash cans). Social Security assistance on the other hand, is available for most people and is a key building block of the egalitarian civilised societies as opposed to the uncouth, savage, feudal, regressive turd world shit holes that are characterised by a sub-human, pea-brained socio-economic logic called “one billionaire surrounded by one hundred million desperate, starving hordes”.

        Raj u just think of ladies who left alone behind, who dont have any authority,income and totally depend on husbands throughout life. how they lead their life…man has bitten/murdered his mother/parent because they are not giving sign to sale property.

        What’s so new or unbelievable in that, Maheshsaheb 😕 After all, the Hindoid savages are behaving in exactly the same way they have behaved for millenia, in the exact same way that is prescribed according to the filth contained in the “holy scriptures” of the uncouth barbarians. I have given the exact quotes at least a couple of times before on other posts.

        If the widows are born into the filthy, feudal, uncouth, sub-human “culture” of the mediaeval barbarians that deserve to be called as Homo criminalii hindoides, then this is how they would lead their lives:

        Depending on the way you look at it, this terrible “fate” may be no better or no worse than the crap called sati (or suttee – women jumping/being pushed into the funeral pyre of their dead husbands) that is prescribed by the sub-human Hindoid “holy scriptures” for those women who’ve lost their husbands, according to the “previous births’ karma” filth of the Hindoid savages.

        The uncouth Hindoid barbarians, if they don’t practise sati, do the next prescribed thing in the sub-human Hindoid “culture” and Hindu religion – ostracisation, abuse and abandonment of widows on the streets and leaving them to their “fate”. You see, that is what the turdy, inhuman, barbaric filth of “previous births’ karma” is all about:

        That’s how “spiritual”, “special” and “wonderful” the stinking, filthy, sub-human crap of Hindoid “culture” is, you see 🙄


  16. Basic income FOR ALL!
    work has to be disconnected from the idea of “plus value”.
    Humanity CANT AFFORD “wealth&booming prosperity”any more.
    The “rich” are TOO expensive to be finance by citizen.

  17. I can even imagine a society not based on money exchange AT ALL!

  18. mahesh chendake Says:

    services exchange with required goods or basic requirment is old concept which has given birth to four varnas and caste system and previously jobs/arts are transfered to genration to genration within same caste. But now after introduction of money that system is almost discarded. still some villages I can see implimenting that as tradition. of course that has also some serious drawbacks as your cast descides your jobs.!!! and not your qualities which has raised lot of serious questions againest once humanity. upper class has enjoyed lot for many thousends years even though not having qualities. but plus point was all need of same village are fullfilled by village itself like that way they were self sufficient and people were dependant on each other so used to take care of each other. still some years back all varnas used to respect to each other also and thats why glorious development also has been seen in that era even before mahabharata and manu. there god and goddes were from nature only who were helpfull to them and trusting on power and work rather than karma. After mahabharata everything goes wrong way. people become blindbilifer. they trusted in karma system. body has got less importance than soul resulted in less or no work and just beliving in onnce own karma . future has gone to hands of karma even people discarded experments also. whatever happening that because your previous karma and people dont try to change it also just suffer like anything accpting as it is as karma. as scintific view /experments are discarded., karma and upper caste powers themselves with the help of religion and rule the people like anything .I can say all that is dark eara of human kind from hindustan/India. still those attitude are fixed and unchangeble . Just immagine how many scintist india has given to world except few name like chanyakya and aryabhatta and charak and shusruta. what about others.? body goes in five element and sole remains !!! its ok but what about previous birth karma and its impact. we can see lot of traditition without scitific view. they are just follows as tradition without any knowladge. After introductuion of money one most important drawback came that people discarded their art of work just as to discard caste system so no life knowladge/skill ( one can say even soft skills needed) has been trasferd to next genration. litracy rate increased/ Graduates are increased but they are not even good clurks they dont have soft skills and traditional knowladge of their own proffession they have lost. so unemplyment. still I can see lot of technoshy which are resistant to change or accept it. so no or less production. no employment no work . no money. visus circle high popullation. who will take basic money garrantee? If management get work done with less money from younger why they will pay high to older who are technoshy and no or less working. They will definately see cost effectveness. for them experience does’nt matter. so every time knowladge and skill updation how many do?and how many changes themselves with changing need of sociaty.?and how many tolarate that stress?
    social reforms with scintific approach seriously needed.

  19. The caste system is social apartheid.

  20. Virtual money is 13 time more “hot air”, NOT REALITY.

    Be ready for the next bubble crash .

    Resources are limited and if we do not change society NOW to more resource justice, the worse scenarios are possible of postponing the evidences.

    Let use the chance of change wisely&fair.We are warned more than enough.

    Lets wake up the lazy middle class lost in their illusion of perpetual promises of bounty, who hits towards the old post catastrophe “we didn’t know!”.Instead of avoiding daydreaming ,learning to handle limits creates true new potentials.

  21. Humans dominated by virtual speculation engines is inhuman.

  22. Avdhut Says:

    After self-realisation everything falls into place; people do what they can and are keen to develop themselves, but not at the expense of sacrificing the love and respect we all need in order to ensure each and every moment is enjoyed, without want.

  23. buddhananda Says:

    I read your post and I found it interesting. I am a new wordpress blogger and I am going from blog to blog looking for new ideas, inspiration or worldwide web contacts.

    If you want you can have a look at the posts I made at buddhameditation.wordpress.com. The main idea is the following : I want to find the philosophical and theoretical roots of our modern days problems. For this I try to use some tools that I borrow mainly in the hinduist, buddhist, meditation, reiki and philosophical fields. The blog is only at its beginning but maybe it will interest you to exchange ideas.Of course if you want to write your opinions, remarks or interesting facts about the posts, you are very welcome.

    Good luck

  24. Martin Luther King Jr. Where do we go from here

    On this date in 1968, Martin Luther King was assassinated in Memphis. He continued to fight poverty and war, even while convinced that struggle would lead someone to take his life. MLK supported a Basic Income Guarantee. Here is a clip from his “Chaos or Community” lecture. USBIG’s advisory board includes Philip Wogaman, who worked with King on the Poor People’s Campaign and on a Guaranteed Income.


    Archbishop Tutu on Basic Income

    The Archbishop sent this video to the BIEN Congress held in South Africa. He gives his reasons for supporting the Basic Income movement.


    Did you know that in Brazil some people already get a real unconditional Basic Income?

    Since October 2008, residents of the village Quatinga Velho have relied on the payment of an unconditional basic income. There are 30 Reais a month (nearly 13 Euro) paid to all community members who want to receive it. This month (July 2010) 77 people are going to receive a guaranteed basic income (BIG), without any discrimination or bureaucracy.



    Two pilot schemes in India

    India might seem an infertile ground for basic income. For decades, social policy has been about the bureaucratic raj, through which subsidised items have been supposedly supplied directly to ‘the poor’, mainly through ration shops, and where subsidies in general have become deeply ingrained in the society, accounting for over 5% of GDP. However, within the past two years an extraordinary change has occurred. Suddenly, the whole of the political establishment is talking about the desirability or otherwise of “cash transfers” instead of subsidies.


  25. Sameer Says:

    Nice but communism may only succeed if its practiced by right and benevolent people who have sence of morality and dharma.In this present materialistic world where people are never satisfied with what they get and their demands continue to increase,will communism work?Communism is possible only when people realize that materialism won’t give them joy,peace and harmony whereas the latter three can only be achieved by following a yogic life of dharma,morality and self discipline.

  26. It is actually 5 Nobel Prize winners in Economy who embraces the idea of Basic Income Guarantee (even Milton Friedman). In Africa, Nobel Peace Prize winner Archbishop Desmond Tutu advocates B.I.G. It has been a 2 years pilot project in Otrijvero, Namibia with good results (2008-20010) and ongoing projects in several villages in India (2012).

  27. Two thoughts on this important topic…

    1. The moment we transition to this model, the way we live now will immediately seem incredibly primitive, idiotic and embarrassing. I’m sure of it.

    2. I’m trying to build a company at the moment, trying to build something that could ‘make a dent in the universe’ and help people. That’s the first thing I would turn my mind to if I had my basics covered – not having a resentful voice in the back of my mind telling me to look for a job that doesn’t exist. Sitting on my ar*e and contributing nothing would not at all be on my mind.

    Perhaps for some people, but I’ll be that after 2 weeks they’re itching for something to do. By that time, do you think they’ll want to make a meaningful contribution to their society, or invest their time selfishly?

    Ultimately, even if some people decide they want to cut themselves off and milk the world’s resources without reciprocation, I’m willing to bet that today’s crime and imprisonment costs would be a far bigger problem – something that wouldn’t exist without scarcity.

    • axinia Says:

      David, I think we cannot predict anything about it. Even if you study the human nature deeply, you still can never say for sure how the human being swill act in a certain situation. It may be so or so…or any other third way. I think at some point we have to try things out and see if it works or not.

      I generally tend to trust people and believe in the best in them. And the model of Soviet Union showed that when people are motivated by higher ideals they can behave and create amazingly. Or course some people will stay criminal, this is according to their evolutionary level and we will not be able to change them easily. But even for that there are great methods how to handle.

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out /  Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out /  Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out /  Change )

Connecting to %s