1000 petals by axinia

the only truth I know is my own experience

7 basic questions Science cannot answer November 2, 2009

Only 7 questions that seem to be essential for the understanding of how humanity lives and operates, and no answers…

  1. Does the Source, the Creator, God exist? Unknown
  2. Does such a thing as a soul exist? If so, is it immortal? Science does not know the answer.
  3. What is time, space, matter, energy? Opinions are sharply divided.
  4. Is our world eternal and endless or, on the contrary, is it limited within time and space? Science does not possess the necessary data to give a definite answer.
  5. Why should I do good and not evil, if evil appeals to me and I can be sure of escaping punishment? The answers are totally unintelligible.
  6. How can science be used to avert the possibility of wars and tyranny? Silence.
  7. How can social harmony be attained with the least human cost? Mutually exclusive proposals are put forward that resemble each other only in that they are all equally unrelated to pure science.

What the use of all billions of good and fasicnating studies, if the essential questions are never being answered?

LOVE;

 axinia, inspired by Daniil Andreev.

(image by me)

 

72 Responses to “7 basic questions Science cannot answer”

  1. electricmud Says:

    Hi axinia

    I’ve just started a blog on WP and the first post is on this very subject. Its a short book review of Victor Stenger’s book God: The failed hypothesis. You might like to check it out.

    I think that you wrongly assume that Science offers definitive answers or claims absolute truth. It doesn’t, its just a framework for assessing claims and for making predictions that can be tested. Science is the best tool we have for understanding reality, it really is the best we can ever hope for.

    On quite a few of your points Science is not silent – but to asert that is has no answer is offering a flase dichotomy. Its not a question of either knowing the truth or not knowing the truth, there is a sliding scale of knowledge what thankfully we can experience using the scientific method.

    On point 1 I am conviced that Science has put that question to rest. Not that it has ‘proved’ God does not exist but because it offer a much more convincing hypothesis for which there is many many times more evidence to support it. And given more than one explanation for something we should always take the one that has the most evidence as approching ‘the truth’ (whatever than means).

    • axinia Says:

      Hi electricmud,

      there is nothing wroing with Sicence :). And I am actually a big fan of it. The only this that worries me is that nowadays, together with Materialism, the Science has become another God.

  2. Not only Science, but no other system can answer those and many more questions… People have spent their whole lives wanting to know those answers! Somehow, I feel that certain questions need not be answered – it will take the thrill out of life! Ignorance is sometimes bliss!!

    Destination Infinity

    • electricmud Says:

      Indeed – which is why I say the Science is the best tool we have.
      And I agree completely that some questions need not be answered – The meaning of Life? “42” is as good as it gets. :)

  3. I felt quite sad on reading this post, Axinia :-(

    If I may ask a simple counter question, “Can blind belief, superstition or religion (call it what you want) answer any of these questions?” :???: The answer, obviously, would be an emphatic NO! And not only that, superstition cannot even answer the most trivial questions, like “Why do cyclones occur”, “Why do rainbows appear in the sky”, “Why does an eclipse occur” or even “What causes a particular illness and how to prevent or cure it” :neutral: Blind belief is primitive crap! :-x

    I agree with Electricmud. You seem to demand too much of science. It doesn’t claim to be the a “holy thing” handed down to humankind by an entity called “God” (who exists ONLY in the imagination of clothed-apes). Science is only a tool, one that we can use to make our lives better.

    Science is like having a fabulous key-making machine with you. One can use it to make a key to open any door one wants. But it neither opens the doors by itself, nor does it hand the keys to you on a platter. Nor does it claim to be a “holy creation” of the “imaginary entity”.

    Superstition on the other hand is like a bunch of keys – and the only doors they can unlock are different trap-doors that open into the same gutter! Hehehe… :-D

    At the same time, science can answer the questions you have asked better than any other thing in the world, and its answers will only get better and better with each passing second :-)

  4. Sahaja Says:

    Well, Axinia, I am a huge fan of science and technology…….I agree with you that science cant answer these questions……but I never thought science was meant to answer these questions!!

    Science to me is very fascinating…..I am an engineer by profession and love my job for the very reason……in a word, science makes me feel alive……

    Nature is fascinating!In my view, Science is an art of study man developed to make him explore/understand the wonders of Nature…….it gives him the purpose of life…..the urge to know the unknown and to create logical sequence in his head of why is it this way and most amazingly, how he can relate what he discovers to Nature around him! Its an evergreen process……never gets exhausted and Mother Nature never fails to pleasantly surprise him.

    I believe in GOD, for that very reason…….my existance is a proof of someone superior to human race/species …..I dont need another proof…..God is within you is my philosophy!

  5. axinia Says:

    Hi all,
    I was afraid that this post might be misunderstood and I see that indeed it was…:(

    I am myself a great fan of science and the only magazines that I read are all scientific! However the place the sience is taking up today is going a bit too dangerous for me. It becomes a great source of manupulations, same ways as religions – just have a look and this sweine flue panic.

    Since 20th century science has assumed the dominant role in culture. The scientific method lays claim to absolute supremacy; It must be stated promptly and plainly that no matter how many illusions the partisans of the scientific method have tried to create in that regard, it has never been, is not now, nor will it ever be the only mode of inquiry or the only means to know the material world.

  6. electricmud Says:

    Hi people

    I’m not sure I understand your position Axinia, because your last paragraph seems to support my understanding of what you meant by the OP.

    I can’t agree with you however. Certainly not that Science has the dominant role in culture nor the claims you make on its behalf of its supremacy. It is supreme only in that we have no better tool for understanding the universe. There may in principal be a better way, and maybe Science will lead us there, but at the moment there is nothing that is demonstrably better.

    • axinia Says:

      there is no…or you don’t know such a tool? :)

      I am sure there is, and may be not the only one.

      • electricmud Says:

        “there is no…or you don’t know such a tool? :)

        I am sure there is, and may be not the only one.”

        I know of no tool better than Science. If you do I’m all ears :)

        • axinia Says:

          Sience is done with the mind.
          If one goes beyond the mind (however impossible it may sound to you, but it is possible indeed!) then there is even finer and much more intelligent tool to work with…

  7. electricmud Says:

    If I might add, it’s the only system I know of that works by active and deliberate self criticism – it has an inbuild anti-dogma device :)

  8. just have a look and this sweine flue panic

    How can science be responsible for that :???: The notorious big pharma lobby (the greedy corporate mafia and their boot-lickers), the politicians and the worthless criminals in the “mainstream media” are causing it. It’s a ploy to make loads of money by selling dangerous toxic vaccines that haven’t been tested and in America, it seems to be part of a much bigger, more nefarious plan :-x

    The scientific method lays claim to absolute supremacy

    Not at all, Axinia! :neutral: In fact, what you say is completely true of the crap called blind belief. By laying claim to “holiness” by first creating a non-existent imaginary entity called god, and then claiming to be from the mouth of that imaginary entity, blind belief has managed to make a fool of people for millenia. Look at how the hordes of blind believers say that certain things cannot be questioned at all because they are “holy” or the “words of the so-called gods” or such crap, even if those things are absolute nonsense and plain primitive. What is claiming absolute supremacy here – science or superstition :???:

    Unlike stupid blind beliefs that claim to be unquestionable (they discourage questions because their proponents know that they are crappy and wouldn’t stand questioning), science is the only method that questions itself and keeps evolving and refining itself. Therefore, it’s the only method that’s progressive. Everything else is decadent, regressive and would take humankind back to the Stone Age :-x

    The scientific method has other benefits too. It civilises societies and makes them refined in all respects. The superstitious method can quickly turn entire societies into primitive, barbaric, uncouth places.

  9. axinia Says:

    just have a look and this sweine flue panic”How can science be responsible for that”
    he????????????????
    The funny vaccination, as well as the virus itself have been actually invented in a laboratory..i thought YOU knew that, Raj. It makes no differnce who orderd that. If a scientist feels OK to produce a bio-weapon, it is dangerous. The ethics is too important here.

    • The funny vaccination, as well as the virus itself have been actually invented in a laboratory..i thought YOU knew that, Raj.

      I’m certainly aware of that, Axinia, since I stopped believing the lies, crap and nonsense that’s dished out by the “mainstream media” crooks :evil: a long time ago. That’s why I mentioned it seems to be part of a much bigger, more nefarious plan by the scoundrels :evil: who control the world. And oh, the worst is yet to come… I guess it all depends on the situation in America.

      But what about the sheeple? It’s futile to tell such things to people who still believe that the 9-11 attacks were carried out by a bunch of cave-dwelling tribesmen.

      It makes no differnce who orderd that. If a scientist feels OK to produce a bio-weapon, it is dangerous

      I don’t know… I don’t think scientists become dangerous by just producing bio-weapons, it’s the politicians, bureaucrats and generals (and the crooks who control these three) that actually use nuclear, biological and chemical weapons who are dangerous :evil:

      Besides, why single out the scientists? If soldiers who murder unarmed civilians in cold blood can get away with such cowardly, heinous crimes by saying they were merely carrying out orders, should a scientist who commits no crime by merely producing a bio-weapon be considered dangerous :???:

      “We can always shoot scientists” is what one Soviet tyrant is believed to have said if some of his own scientists’ efforts turned out to be unsuccessful. And it’s not just the commies. So many scientists who worked on “secret” projects and whistle-blowers who knew too much have died under mysterious circumstances or “committed suicide” in the West. Only an idiot would believe so many unnatural deaths can be a coincidence.

      The ethics is too important here.

      When has ethics ever been important to the uncouth semi-civilised hordes and the crooked kleptocrat scoundrels throughout history :???: The more human blood these cannibals drink, the more bloodthirsty they become :-x

  10. electricmud Says:

    “The funny vaccination, as well as the virus itself have been actually invented in a laboratory”

    What the..?!? Could you elaborate please Axinia?

    • axinia Says:

      electricmud, I am sorry I cannot elaborate much, but my good friends -scientists from pharma research say that is has been knows since more than one year what is the origin of this so calles flu. There have been stunnings infos in their forums, but I am not much into that…

      I find truly exiting the fact that it was applied for the vaccine patent by BAXTER International (№ US 2009/0060950 A1), )against H1N1 in August 2008, although the first cases have been registered in March 2009…(!).
      No comments.

      • electricmud Says:

        “I find truly exiting the fact that it was applied for the vaccine patent by BAXTER International (№ US 2009/0060950 A1), )against H1N1 in August 2008, although the first cases have been registered in March 2009…(!).”

        Axinia, it appears you are a conspiract theorist: if you have any evidence then I’m all ears. (and no, ‘I know someone who’s a Scientist…’ anecdotes are not evidence – but as you read only science magazines you already know that).

        So, the WHO and Baxter are trying to kill us all right?! And then those lizard people the Illuminati control the world…

        If you say it enough times perhaps you can convince yourself its the truth.

        Likewise vague statements of personal illumination don’t really help either. If you have some facts that you can back up with evidence I’ll be glad to hear it. But I think I’m probalby wasting my time aren’t I.

        • axinia Says:

          “So, the WHO and Baxter are trying to kill us all right?! And then those lizard people the Illuminati control the world…”, – I am not into this total complot theory, no ;) But some things are so obvious…There is no proof for H1N1 to be a global danger. It’s all man made.

          I have asked my friends now and hope to get some good links for you :))

          • electricmud Says:

            Well of course there’s no proof. Science doesn’t work like that. In fact Science doesn’t proove anything and doesn’t claim to – it’s a basic misunderstanding (only in maths are there proofs). BUT this isn’t science, it’s medicine (and politics).

            There is historical experience (the great Spanish flu pandemic) and recent collected data (that people have died from Swine Flu in disturbing numbers in some parts of the world) that informs medical advice and policymaking. It’s right that we should be concerned about swine flu and to take adequate precautions but not to get hysterical either.

            • electricmud Says:

              BTW a quick search reveals that A/H1N1 is a mutation of one of several pig forms of Influenza virus A (and there are avian and human forms of A/H1N1 too). If you search the medical literature, or even easier the US patent office website you will see lots of patents with the words “A/H1N1″ in them stretching back years, because they have been known about for years. Spanish flu was a form of avian A/H1N1.

              In fact the last article containing “swine AND A/H1N1″on Pubmed was from 1983 entitled “Influenza virus A/swine-outbreaks in domestic pigs and antibody findings in human sera”

              Just because Baxter filed a patent in 2008 and it contains the words “A/H1N1″ doesn’t not make the outbreak a man-made conspiracy for the reasons I just pointed out.

              I can’t actuall find the patent myself just the crap that’s posted on site’s like David Icke’s.

            • axinia Says:

              let me kindly ask you if you have got vaccinated yourself already?

              Interestingly, doctors and nurces in Austria are said to be hesitating to get vaccinated, although officilally everyone is more than invited..

              • electricmud Says:

                I realise I’m probably wasting my time but let’s just give it one more go shall we?

                I’ve pointed out that there is nothing unusual or sinister about the term ‘A/H1N1′ appearing in a patent prior to the 2009 Mexican outbreak since it’s not a term specific to the current pandemic virus, its a general term for the type of virus strain known about for almost a century. There are other historical patents by other companies that mention it too.

                I’ve also given instructions how to go and read the evidence for yourself. Anyone reading this can check what I’m saying. I’m not blindly asserting it or regurgitating BS anecdotes.

                I’ve even explained how to do it: Pubmed articles (freely available online at pubmed.com) mention ‘swine A/H1N1′ virus at least as far back as 1983.

                The specific facts are actually not that important, it is sufficient for my argument to simply show that the term A/H1N1 is not new or specific to the current outbreak and so it is not at all surprising to see it in a patent predating 2009)

                Discuss… :p

                (PS how lucky we are not to be living in 1918 when no vaccine was available. 20-50 MILLION people died worldwide. Don’t you think it is incredibly irresponsible to spread unsupported propaganda which could result in vulnerable people dying because they were not vaccinated?)

                • axinia Says:

                  Propagadna is what you are supporting, my firend :)

                  Thanks for the info, this is helpful, but I want to see first how it develops.
                  And again, you ahve not answered my question yet – ARE YOU VACCINATED ALREADY?

                  • electricmud Says:

                    “Propagadna is what you are supporting, my firend”

                    Well, thats quite a statement to make given that I’ve just laid out my evidence for all to see. Where is YOUR evidence for the things you are saying? As far as I can see it’s just hot air.

                    “And again, you have not answered my question yet – ARE YOU VACCINATED ALREADY?”

                    For the sake of order I ignored this question until you had responded to my post about A/H1N1 terms in patents that you find so ‘exciting’.

                    But if you insist no, I haven’t been vaccinated…yet. I live in the UK and as I am not in a high-risk group I have not yet been offered it.

                    If and when the times comes and at the advice of medical doctors I will be vaccinated, unhesitatingly (because I understand the risks), as will my children – Just as they were for MMR and just as my grandmother is each year for seasonal flu.

                • axinia Says:

                  There is a Google translated(from German) link to the official Austrian news site:
                  “NO NEED TO PANIC”

                  “Run” on vaccination remained from the past.After the death of a swine flu eleven year old girl from Bolzano to the Innsbruck University Clinic experts still see no reason for particular concern. The swine flu is nothing more than a new flu variant, as there is almost a year, said the Sozialmedizinerin Claudia Wild Dienstagfrüh in Ö1 Morning Journal.

                  The swine flu is nothing more than game for a new flu variant, as there almost every year. The ratio of deaths to the total global number of cases shows “that it is the same as any other winter flu, too. It is simply dragged into the media.”

                  Criticism on Facts
                  Wild criticized that the relations do not match: If some had died in the U.S. instead of six pregnant women in the swine flu, then we must put this in relation to 3.1 million pregnant women in the U.S.. The expert also questioned the most recent figures from the Ukraine, which so far 67 people had died on the swine flu virus.

                  And ongoing severe swine flu disease in Austria, the director of the Ludwig Boltzmann Institute for Medical Assessment says, “Let’s look at the many others who are in intensive care – how many TB patients are there, and no third party in the world, but die first in the world, and how many of them interested.

                  “Huge markets”
                  And game notes that both the World Health Organization (WHO) as well as local expert panels doctors sit, were involved in the development of vaccines.

                  “Vaccinations should be given to many people, these are huge markets that are continuously processed. In the foreground those media that are relatively unreflective of the products of the pharmaceutical industry are even harder. Certainly also because they are paid for, with great certainty. ” But that there were also many who simply believed in it.

                  “Vaccination does not reduce serious cases”
                  Wild is not a believer in the efficacy of influenza vaccination and is in contradiction as chairman of the Impfausschusses on the top medical officer, Ingomar Mutz. He says there are a number of field studies that flu shots reduced the number of illnesses.

                  Wild other hand, believes that there exists no evidence that flu shots reduced the number of hospitalizations, so of serious diseases.

                  Few get vaccinated
                  The local health workers, it certainly has not hurry to immunize themselves. Of some 32,000 employees of the Vienna Hospital Association (KAV) could be vaccinated to Friday only 100th

                  In other states there is no real “run” on the vaccination: In Styria were immunized through Friday 203 doctors and other staff from the health sector, it was said by the Styrian Health Insurance (GKK). 37 more people could be administered on Monday morning at the Public Health Department in Graz, a syringe.

                  In Burgenland, were immunized according to Health Department is now about 449 members of the health workers.

                  http://www.orf.at/091103-44294/index.html

                  • electricmud Says:

                    Whether or not a vaccination has efficacy is one matter, neither am I debating that Baxter (and the other company) will make a lot of money, but its something completely different to claim its all a hoax for that purpose. You said:

                    “There is no proof for H1N1 to be a global danger. It’s all man made.”

                    That’s pure, unjustified conspiracy theory and it’s something completly different to whether or not the vaccine is effective.

                    The only attempt by the anti-vax brigade to offer ‘evidence’ that I’ve seen is the Baxter patent which I’ve shown to be a complete non-starter as an argument for a hoax.

                    Can you see that there is no logical justification for asserting that the current (potential) pandemic is a man made hoax based purely on reports of people refusing the jab and opinion on vaccine efficacy?

                    Likewise just because Baxter have been pretty shoddy with their quality control when shipping live virus samples doesn’t mean they’re out to kill us either.

                    And yes the 1918 virus was reverese engineered from RNA samples in the lab because no-one at the time thought to keep live samples of the virus after the pandemic. Again that does not constitute evidence that ‘the men in white coats are out to get us for profit’ or that the current flu vaccine (or AIDS or whatever) are examples of leaked man-made bio-weapons.

  11. volodimir108 Says:

    scients is looking not for truth, but for financing

  12. Can you understand Ukrainian, Axinia? There seems to be something going on there, and it isn’t a funny thing at all. And a chap who knew about it in advance was falsely arrested and has disappeared.

    Yes, certain things are getting so obvious that no amount of cover-up, pooh-poohing or ridiculing can make it go away. And surprisingly enough, almost every rotten thing seems to lead to the same cabal in one way or another. The “mainstream media” is so completely sold out to the crooks and criminals that they completely disgust me. I don’t even trust them for sports news.

    And since you’re in Vienna and mentioned about friends in pharma, do you know the courageous lady who is trying to expose these crooks? Knowing what these scum beings are capable of, I fear for her safety, even in a civilised place like Austria :neutral: Please do share those links with me as well :-)

    • axinia Says:

      I dont really unerstand Ukrainian, but my husband does.
      I have heard about this Austrian journalist with her investigagtions, but I don’t know anything about her destiny so far.

      I will share the links here as son as i get them :)

      • I dont really unerstand Ukrainian, but my husband does.

        Is Volodimir originally from Ukraine? I’m also led to believe that Volodimir or Volodymyr are Ukrainian forms of the name while the Russian version is Vladimir.

        Anyway, it’s shocking that there is almost no coverage of the situation in Ukraine by the worthless “mainstream media”. When the situation is not threatening at all, they hype it up to unbelievable levels, and when the situation gets as bad as it does in Ukraine, they deliberately ignore it. They are pathetic people, the “mainstream media” scoundrels! :evil:

        http://ukraineplague.blogspot.com/

        • axinia Says:

          Hi Raj, yes my husband is Ukrainian :)

          The situation there is ridiculous. In fact I ahve got an intresting statistics now from Russia. The ministery of Health reports that MONTHLY in Russia 2,5 thousands die of flu or pneumonia, tis is a normal rate for a 140 Mio population. If the immune system is too weak, some people just cannot stand the 40 Degree feever (I know that it is, I had a real flue with 40 degree many years back)… Presently in Russia they have 25 death cases of this particular H1N1 flue, which is really nothing comapred to the monthly statistics. Same statisitcs show that, say the number of people dying from heart deseases is 32.000 monthly in average in

          As for Ukraine, it is obviously a hype, and I am sure the death statistics ahs been manipulated, as the panic is extremely useful for the political situation.

  13. radha Says:

    what’s science? i have no idea about it!

  14. :) there are lot many more questions which science has not even thought of. there can be tons of argument done on this. Nice article.

  15. In the semi-civilised Third World, Axinia, the uncouth hordes are even more blissfully ignorant than the clueless sheeple in the First World. Having been brought up in a mediaeval “culture” that encourages voracious boot-licking instead of rigorous questioning, the hordes eagerly lap up whatever is dished out to them by the notorious liars in the “mainstream media”. To make things worse, the independent media is almost non-existent, and if it does, it is deliberately crushed or prevented from operating freely by the kleptocrats and fascists in power.

    Yet, why do the big pharma crooks target the First World with their filthy toxic vaccines instead of peddling them in the heavily overpopulated Third World when the latter has lower standards and even less accountability? There are several reasons:

    – Money… there is big money to be made in the First World despite the smaller population. The lowly Third World spends a pittance on healthcare and so they may not have the money to buy vaccines for their teeming hordes.

    – Due to lower hygenic and sanitary conditions, the Third World hordes generally have a somewhat better immune system (IF they are not malnourished, that is), especially against milder illnesses like flu etc. However, such conditions can multiply the danger by many times in cases of more serious illnesses (just like the plague did to mediaeval Europe).

    – In the lowly Third World, so many people die of so many illnesses (and other causes) that some extra deaths would barely make a difference. Human life is very cheap in the semi-civilised parts of the world :-(

    – Only little children are vaccinated and that too only against the well-known illnesses that can be prevented by tried-and-tested vaccination like polio, measels, typhoid, small pox etc. (In the most primitive parts, even this is not done completely.) A flu vaccine for adults, be it against seasonal or swine or bird flu, THANKFULLY, is almost unheard of.

    Yet, one needs to actively resist the filthy toxic vaccines being forced on the sheeple by the crooked big pharma lobby and the “mainstream media” morons, whether in the First World or the Third World. No one has the right to forcefully vaccinate an individual against his/her will in any part of the world, even during a widespread pandemic. Even scientists who developed the successful small pox vaccine are refusing this toxic crap.

    Want to see what a nasty, toxic vaccine can do to a perfectly healthy person? Take a look at this:


    :-(

  16. Oops, that was the video about scientists refusing the toxic “swine flu vaccine. Here is the shocking video of the unfortunate young woman:


    :shock:

      • The first site indeed tries hard to debunk the case, but all it does is claim that it’s “highly unlikely” or “incredibly unlikely” the flu vaccine caused her condition. Also, it states that “even if it was caused” by the vaccine, it must be the first case recorded and “one in many millions”. As if one is not bad enough for the person affected and her family. And this isn’t the only reaction caused by the toxic shot. People are dropping down dead after being administered the “swine flu vaccine”:

        http://www.theflucase.com/

        If it weren’t for Jane, the criminals at Baxter would have got away without even an investigation. If this was a just world, those criminals would be behind bars by now and Baxter would have been shut down. Of course, it isn’t. How many people can they fool by claiming it was “an accidental contamination”?

        Moreover, why wasn’t it even covered by the “mainstream media”? They make a hell of a lot of noise when a few “suspects” are caught for “plotting a terror attack”.

        As for the second link, I simply cannot trust a site that claims to deliver a “daily dose of skepticism” but doesn’t even attempt to question the lies that have been dished out by the “mainstream media” and the “official reports” on 9-11. That blog is a silly, almost pathetic attempt by the cabal and their disinfo agents to counter “the truthers”.

        Why is the pro-vax camp hell bent on injecting the toxic crap into the bodies of unwilling victims? Nobody is preventing them from taking as many doses of their beloved vaccine as they want for themselves and their families! Why have these crooked vaccine makers been given immunity from prosecution if something goes horribly wrong?

        http://www.emaxhealth.com/1020/39/32326/swine-flu-vaccine-makers-granted-legal-immunity.html

        • electricmud Says:

          People like you have no real concept of what constitutes reasonable argument or evidence. Use of logical fallacies is an unfortunate symptom of the kind of wooly thinking you display.

          Argument from incredulity is not an argugment.

          Likewise correlation does not imply cause.

          These are really simple concepts, please try to keep up. Here’s another useful aphorism to keep in mind.

          ‘That which is claimed without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.’

          Those articles are by individuals who follow the rules of logical, reasoned argument and they readily demonstrate the paucity of the claims in the video. They also point out methodological shortcomings on the part of the journalists.

          The burdon of proof is on the claimant. The claim is that the the vaccine caused her condition. That claim is shown to have very little basis in evidence and that the reporters didn’t ask even the most basic questions, they simply assume (as you do) that the vaccine did it. Why? Because it makes a good story, which sells advertising on their channel. Bad news sells.

          (And I know I’m probably wasting my time writing any of this here, but a part of me feels duty bound to at least try to cunter irrational BS wherever I may find it.)

          • If the burden of proof lies with the claimant, then why don’t the vaccine makers prove their vaccines are absolutely safe? Or if they aren’t 100% safe, then why don’t they simply state that?

            Why do they try to hide the truth that vaccines can have dangerous side effects, and untested, “fast-tracked” vaccines containing deadly toxins that have been rolled out to make a quick buck can result in death or disability?

            Why do they bribe or make deals with the politicians to grant them immunity instead? If the vaccines are safe, why do they want immunity from prosecution? The very fact they seek immunity from prosecution highlights the truth that they themselves know their toxic crap can result in death or disability and don’t want to pay for it! :-x

            “Bad news sells” applies equally to the fear-mongering of the “mainstream media” about the whole swine flu issue. They aren’t even content with peddling scary stories about a worldwide pandemic that “could kill millions”. They’re trying hard to push people to line up to take the toxic shot. Perhaps they aren’t content with merely selling bad news. They want the advertising money from toxic vaccine makers as well!

            Individuals who follow logical, reasoned argument? That’s funny. The second link is the blog of an individual who deliberately chooses to ignore the truth and overwhelming evidence about the 9-11 attacks, and instead blindly repeats the lies of the establishment and the controlled media. Yet he calls himself a “skeptic”. What a joke! His “skepticism” on 9-11 suddenly melted along with the high strength steel when the thermate was set off, I guess :-D

            One doesn’t need to be a rocket scientist to put two and two together.

            You’re welcome to say whatever you want, but I’m not going to believe a word of the ridiculous crap that’s dished out by the toxic vaccine making profiteers and their paid (and unpaid) disinfo agents!

            I request everyone NOT to believe a word of whatever I say, but to check out the facts by yourselves about the dangers of the filthy toxic vaccines before you or anyone you know decides to line up for a poisonous shot!

            Jane Burgermeister is a courageous lady who has filed a criminal case against Baxter in Austria for deliberately contaminating seasonal flu vaccines with weapon grade flu virus and supplying it to 16 countries. Had the Czech health authorities not detected this and set off the alarm, it could have resulted in the deliberate mass murder of millions. Check out Jane’s site http://www.theflucase.com which is a goldmine of information about the entire swine flu issue. Check out this link:

            http://tinyurl.com/toxic-flu-vaccine

            It exposes the dangers of taking poisonous shots made by crooked companies like Baxter that have been “fast-tracked”, not tested thoroughly, contains dangerous toxins. More important, crooked politicians in certain countries have granted these toxic shot peddlers immunity from prosecution so that they escape responsibility for murdering and disabling people. Here are certain things that they don’t want you to know about the toxic shot:

            Again, I repeat, please DON’T believe a word of whatever I say. Instead check out the facts by yourself (not what the “mainstream media” keeps dishing out) before you take that toxic shot!

            • electricmud Says:

              “If the burden of proof lies with the claimant, then why don’t the vaccine makers prove their vaccines are absolutely safe? Or if they aren’t 100% safe, then why don’t they simply state that?”

              In order:
              It is.
              They don’t have to.
              It isn’t and they do.

              • electricmud Says:

                “vaccines containing deadly toxins”

                Could you define a toxin please?

              • It is? They don’t have to prove it?

                Perhaps that was the reason for Baxter to deliberately contaminate vaccine material and ship them out?

                http://tinyurl.com/Baxter-criminals

                Thanks for making me laugh! :lol:

                You still haven’t mentioned why the vaccine peddlers want immunity from prosecution. Or how Baxter could get away with “accidental contamination” in its facility that follows BSL 3 (Biosafety Level 3) precautions.

                • electricmud Says:

                  “It is? They don’t have to prove it?”

                  Correct.

                  Nothing can be proved except in mathematics and logic (ie within a rigourously defined axiomatic system, and even then there are still unprovable truths (see Godel)).

                  The real world is much messier than axiomatic systems. No drug company, anywhere in the world (nor any alternative medicine peddler for that matter) has ever given 100% proof for the safety of their products. No legislation in ANY country requires this. Legislation sets standards for HOW LIKELY it is that a given side effect of a particular drug may occur. You do this by gathering data and doing some stats and EVALUATING THE RISK.

                  It’s impossible to have any kind of discussion with you if you don’t understand the basics of the scientific method let alone the mathematics of risk.

                  It is ALL about risk. Pros and cons. The upside, the downside. The important thing is to understand JUST HOW BIG THE RISK IS.

                  If you look at everything in an absolutist, binary, false-dichotomy kind of way it simply makes you look foolish and leads to some very bad decision making. (Though I’m beginning think you might be deliberately trying to wind me up as I don’t believe anyone can be quite so obtuse without a fair bit of creative effort).

                  Lets assume you’re sincere though but I’m only going to entertain one more reply. Now, I’ve given you a huge clue so lets hear your definition of a ‘toxin’

                  I’m waiting :)

                  • Since you asked for it…

                    Non-technical usage

                    When used non-technically, the term “toxin” is often applied to any toxic substances. Toxic substances not of biological origin are more properly termed poisons. Many non-technical and lifestyle journalists also follow this usage to refer to toxic substances in general, though some specialist journalists at publishers such as the BBC and The Guardian maintain the distinction that toxins are only those produced by living organisms.

                    Basics of the scientific method? Evaluating the risk? You must be joking here.

                    One of my comments below contains scientific reasons given by medical practitioners why IT’s UNSAFE to take the filthy vaccine.

                    About evaluating the risk,

                    Insurance companies in Australia would not insure doctors who gave the vaccine because it was a fast tracked vaccine and therefore experimental. They felt that the danger of complications was far too high to risk insuring the doctors. Unlike doctors in America, they did not have a special law that Congress would pass to insulate them from liability should severe complications arise from the vaccine.

                    It is also of special interest to note that tens of millions of babies were vaccinated with the Hepatitis B vaccine (providing no protection to the babies) only to learn later that it is linked to a 310% increased risk of developing multiple sclerosis.36 One has to ask — What else do they not know about this vaccine?

                    Well, it turns out a lot.

                    Years after it was added to the recommended vaccine schedule, it was linked to a terrifying disorder called macrophagic myofascitis, which in children is associated with a severe dementia-like illness.

                    Then we have the case of the Gardasil vaccine. Millions of young girls were vaccinated and within several months pregnant women were losing their babies, babies were being born deformed, several of these very young girls died and a growing number have had serious reactions to the vaccine. Once again we have to ask — What else do they not know about this vaccine?

                    This is about individual (and collective) right to information, right to refuse vaccination (even during a widespread pandemic), right to be informed about the shady deals that greedy, unscrupulous, criminal vaccine peddlers make with crooked politicians with the help of the worthless controlled media and paid (and unpaid) disinfo agents and right to know how a vaccine peddler can deliberately ship out deadly material.

                    It’s quite impossible to discuss things with a person like you who applies double standards about proof and just about everything else.

                    I’m still waiting for you to answer the following:

                    – Why do the vaccine peddlers want immunity from prosecution?

                    – How could Baxter get away with “accidental contamination” in its facility that follows BSL 3 (Biosafety Level 3) precautions?

                    – Also, do you believe that an individual has a right to refuse vaccination? If your answer is no, then I don’t want to make a fool of myself by discussing things with you.
                    :-)

                    • electricmud Says:

                      I have not said that you don’t have a right to refuse vaccination. Where did you get that idea from?

                      Re toxicity: ANYTHING can be toxic, it all depends on the dose. To quote Guardian Bad Science columnist Ben Goldacre (since your so fond of argument from authority) “The word ‘Toxin’ is classic pseudoscience terminology”

                      Your description is a good attempt but utter nonsense and to reference ‘specialist’ journos for BBC and the Guardian is hillarious! Go vist http://www.badscience.net,. It’ll be fun trust me.

                      You’re right, I just can’t answer those three humdingers at the end. You got me fair and square. I don’t know… wait that must mean 9-11 WAS a conspirancy!

                      LOL :)

                    • Phew! It does come as a relief that you believe people have a right to refuse something being injected into their bodies. I did not assume you didn’t believe in such a right, I just wanted to get it confirmed :-)

                      It wasn’t an attempt to reference those journalists. That definition of “toxin” was a copy-paste job, as was the risk assessment by the Australian insurers.

                      Do you think the risk assessment of the fast-tracked, experimental vaccine by people who go to great lengths to EVALUATE THE RISK (insurance companies) is “utter nonsense”? Why don’t the Aussie insurance companies insure doctors who vaccinate people against swine flu? You’re so confident the vaccine is “safe” and doesn’t need to be proven – why don’t those professional risk evaluators agree with you, then?

                      By the way, I generally have low tolerance of most kinds of authority and deeply distrust the ones with political or bureaucratic authority… unless I have sufficient proof to believe in what they dish out through the pathetic controlled media.

                      That’s one of the reasons I’m convinced 9-11 was an inside job, a false flag terror attack and a CONSPIRACY, not a mere “conspiracy theory”. Had the clueless American sheeple cared to find out what happened and demanded an impartial independent investigation, they would not find themselves in the mess they’re in at the moment :neutral:

  17. axinia Says:

    Thanks for the videos and arguments Raj, very interesting!

  18. axinia Says:

    Russian jokes on Swine Flue (untranslatable :))

    Как-то раз Винни Пух с Пятачком, замотанным в шарфик, прогуливались и
    зашли в банк.
    – Всем ни с места, это ограбление, – крикнул Винни.
    – Да у вас-то и оружия нет, – охрана, персонал и клиенты валялись от
    смеха по полу.
    – А ну, свинья, покашляй…
    ———
    Mинздрав РФ предупреждает: для эффективного лечения свинячего гриппа
    необходимо обращаться за медицинской помощью не менее чем за пять суток
    до появления первых признаков заболевания!

    ———-

    Страна на бета-тест, спешите пока дешево!
    Опробуем ваши экспериментальные лекарства на большом количестве
    пациентов.
    Правительство Украины.


    Маршрутка:
    Сидят все, напряженные такие, дышат неглубоко, через 4 слоя марли.
    Заходит на остановке чахлик с красными глазами и судорожно начинает
    кашлять.
    – ?!??!!!??!?!!
    – Да не волнуйтесь, это не грипп, это туберкулез!
    – А-аа.
    ——–
    Минздрав предупреждает: все там будем.
    ——
    Зараженные свиньи для атаки выбрали Украину. Зуб за зуб.
    ——-
    Уважаю H1N1. Вот ведь как за сало Украине отомстил!
    ——-
    Фильмография времен свиного гриппа:

    1. Заражён и очень опасен
    2. Свиноматрица
    3. Джонни-пневмоник
    4. Час свиньи
    5. Мясо атакует!
    6. Вакцинатор
    7. Изгоняющий вирусы
    8. Хрип
    9. Мазь, таблетки, два шприца
    10. Бактериальное чтиво
    11. Инфлюэнца Джонс
    12. Последнее танго в Тернополе
    13. Маска
    14. Гриппозные войны. Эпизод 1
    15. Люди в белом
    16. Сериал “17 мгновений гриппенфюрера”
    17. Детское кино – “Три вирусёнка” и “Санитарка и семь гномов”
    18. Спортивная программа “Формула Н1N1″

  19. axinia Says:

    My friend has sent me some links, as promisses I am posting her reply here.

    “Indeed I mentioned to you long time ago that this virus could have been made in the laboratory. For instance, I read it in the article in Nature magazin in spring. However in the recent articles I didn’t see any signs of that hypothesis anymore.

    I checked recent articles aboutt H1N1 virus in the main scientific database. I should say that surprisingly in summer there were more articles published than in September-October.
    I didn’t find anything about bad sides of the coming vaccination. There are some side effects but they are similar to the seasonal virus vaccines which were propely tested and which were used already for several years. May be I wouldn’t hurry with getting new anti-swine vaccine. But I don’t see anything bad in getting usual vaccine against seasonal flu. I read in some places that even this vaccine MIGHT make illness easy.

    Here is quite good review about H1N1 virus from october. I found it well written.

    http://www.thoracicmedicine.org/article.asp?issn=1817-1737;year=2009;volume=4;issue=4;spage=163;epage=172;aulast=Petrosillo

    I also read another paper that would be more difficult for you to read, about origin of the current H1N1 virus. From that paper it follows that it came from the mixture of the two strains of swine viruses: North American and Eurasian and probably it passed to humans not directly from pigs but from North American water birds. That’s why this virus is so complicated and there are so many rumors about its origin.

    However I should add that all published data are not final, there are a lot of words as “probably” and “likely”.
    Here is a link to the pdf file:

    http://www.springerlink.com/content/d2578p4410k84675/fulltext.pdf

    At this site you can find a weekly and daily update on a situation regarding influenza pandemia in Europe

    http://ecdc.europa.eu/en/healthtopics/Pages/Influenza_A%28H1N1%29_Outbreak.aspx

    What I see now from the recent reports – the main problem is not how to produce or test vaccine, but how to persuade people to make vaccination. Read it here:

    http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v461/n7265/full/461698a.html

    plus couple of other links

    http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v461/n7265/full/461698a.html

    http://www.nature.com/nri/journal/v9/n10/full/nri2651.html

    http://www.cdc.gov/h1n1flu/vaccination/vaccine_safety_qa.htm

    http://www.nature.com/news/2009/090702/full/news.2009.617.html

    ———————————————

    I find it highly interesting that she cannot find any links which she read in spring. It looks like a good job was done to remove all posible sources of the “different” information.

    Whatever it is, let’s see what happens.

    • electricmud Says:

      Axinia – your friend is much more sensible in her statements and I have no real issues with what she says in principal. However, she does make a few speculatory statements such as tentively hinting that the virus *might* have been created in the lab. I agree it might. But it equally might not. Unless we have evidence either way then you can’t say. But you also mustn’t cherry pick your evidence to support dogma, you have to weigh up ALL the evidence.

      When you friend makes speculative statements (I assume she works in industrial science or medicine?) they have no more weight than someone who works as a farmer, or builder or is unemployed. Argument from authority is just another form of bad argument.

      Be careful what conclusions you draw from such statements without checking for yourself.

      Furthermore she makes statements about papers she read but doesn’t give a citation so I nor you can check for ourselves. Indeed she assumes you wouldn’t understand which is bad form – she is essentially saying ‘listen to me because I am the expert’. Argument from authority again.

      I assume its a paper in a medical journal. Medical papers employ p values of 0.05 to dedermine statistical significance in their results. 5% or lower. This implies that 1 in 20 results that claim to be significant will be the result of chace alone. It folows that on average 1 in 20 medical results are likely to be wrong. In Physics for example you have to meet a much more stringent test of singificance. P vales of 0.0001 are employed here! That’s 1 in 10,000 chance of being wrong. (see Victor Stenger, The God Hypothesis p92 for more details)

      So, you see you have to be very careful when you use medical evidence. You have to be several orders of magnitude more careful (ie skeptical) of claims you see in the media. Journalists are not scientists and news reports are not data.

      I sincerely hope some of you will make the effort to read and digest this.

      • electricmud Says:

        PS – that nature article is excellent. I hope you and Alien Earthling read it Axinia.

        PPS – I think the second link may be for the paper your friend claims you would not understand. Aplogies if that’s true: I withdraw my comment as it applies to her above (though not about the argument from authority in general).

  20. The Silence About Vaccine Deaths in Media is Due to the Confidential Contracts with the Vaccine Manufacturers

    This is from a comment made by one of our readers to the article about the silence in Swedish media over recent “swine flu” vaccine deaths:

    GSK secret contract binds Government to SILENCE!

    Dr Eric Beeth 2009-11-02 18:13:41

    Dear all,

    I am a Swedish general practioner working in Belgium, and quite involved in this issue, as together with three citizens and another GP we advised the Belgian Government last Friday in court that this is a disguised pharmaceutical trial on human subjects, with real risks involved.

    I put in two comments on the story (see below), that are quite relevant in the context that the Swedish Newspapers have seemingly stopped reporting the intermediary results of this disguised pharmaceutical trial.

    If you can read French, you will discover at http://www.lepoint2.com/sons/pdf/vaccin-H1N1%20medias.pdf that the maker of PandemRix, that is used in Sweden, passed a secret contract, the same in every European country, which specified a “Green List” of what the government MAY communicate (hardly anything!) and the “Red List” of what may absolutely NOT be made public, like intermediary results of the side effects that appear in the studies of the controversial squalene (and thiomersal) adjuvantated PandemRix until they have been sanitized by Glaxo Smith Kline researchers, and published by GSK themselves.

    These contracts also confirm what was announced in Sweden in October, that these pandemic vaccines where actually ordered already back in 2006: there was a standing order to foresee a vaccination for large parts of the population IF the WHO would declare a PANDEMIC of degree 6. When the “New-Type” A/H1N1 appeared, and it started spreading to other continents, the WHO changed their definition of grade 6 pandemic by dropping the criteria that it should be highly deadly. Thus, the government discovered that it’s signed standing orders were passed simply to combat a new (designer!) strain of flu that may or may not become more or less lethal than the common Influenza A or B flu.

    This has allowed GSK to do a large scale tolerance experiment of their specialy formulated AVIAN-flu vaccine “Pre-PandRix” paid for by the governments, where doctors are recruited for a large scale pharmaco-vigilance study, without being paid as researchers, and patients receive government propaganda to sign up “to protect the weak in our society”, while de facto subjecting themselves to be guinea pigs in this “H1N1-dry-run” study for the future benefit of registering GSK’s AVIAN flu vaccine “Pre-PandRix”.

    If you are to receive the “Pandremix” against the benign “new-type” H1N1-flu this season, we recommend that you first learn about the possible side effects, as GSK asked their own employees to sign an “informed consent form” before receiving the vaccine: see for ex: http://www.asanat.org/Declaration_of_Free_and_Informed_Consent.pdf

    Best regards,

    Dr Beeth

    Here’s another site (tri-lingual – French, Flemish and English) that’s a goldmine of information on the “swine flu vaccine”:

    http://www.asanat.org

  21. 9 reasons for you NOT to get vaccinated
    against the swine-flu virus A H1N1

    1. The swine-flu virus is contagious yet should be no more a threat than normal seasonal influenza. At the end of winter 2009, the toll of victims in New Zealand or Chile is negligible. There was NO vaccination.

    2. The reputable international pharmacological monitoring NGO Cochrane Collaboration, drawing on 40 years
    of research gives anti-flu vaccines a POOR rating in terms of their effectiveness and of tolerance for
    them.
    It has found that (a) in the case of over-65s, their performance is particularly unimpressive (b) in
    healthy young adults, there is a lack of any proof of their effectiveness (c) in children, the available data
    does not permit verification of tolerance to different types of vaccines (d) in health professionals, there is no
    credible evidence that their administering vaccines mitigates the complications suffered by flu victims in their
    care.

    3. Recently, a Canadian survey drawing on 12 million observations would have come to the provisional
    conclusion that people vaccinated against flu during the course of the past two years stood double the
    chance of succumbing to the H1N1 virus.
    By the same token, were the virus to mutate, those vaccinated
    with the H1N1 vaccine could run an even greater risk of falling ill. This study awaits confirmation.

    4. The new H1N1 vaccines are still in an experimental stage. They have not been subjected to proper, long-term clinical testing. Neither their effectiveness nor absence of risks have been established, particularly
    vis-à-vis sicknesses with a long gestation period.

    5. The vaccines in 10-dose phials contain mercury (thiomersal) as a preservative. Thiomersal has been
    implicated in the onset of autism.
    The American Academy of Pediatrics (60,000 members) in 1999
    demanded that it be removed from vaccines.

    6. The vaccine contains an additive, squalene which strongly compounds the immune response. Although naturally present in the body and can be ingested without problem, squalene if injected is suspected of
    triggering auto-immune diseases (e.g. MS, Amyotrophic Lateral Sclerosis, Fibromyalgia) or various
    neurological and rheumatic disorders.
    The FDA in the United States forbids its use in flu vaccines.

    7. It was the squalene present in the anti-anthrax vaccine that was suspected of causing Gulf War Syndrome in
    over 25% of the veterans (with a marked presence of antibodies to squalene). The concentration of
    squalene in H1N1 vaccine is substantially greater.
    Using squalene enables the dose of antigen to be
    reduced and larger quantities of vaccine to be produced.

    8. According to an EU ruling on 15/09/09, manufacturers and doctors administering this experimental vaccine may be exempted from all civil responsibility. In the event of side-effects linked to the vaccine,
    there will be no basis for legal action.

    9. Finally, there is a whole range of other natural means, scientifically proven, of strengthening your
    immune system and of fending off or minimising complications linked to flu.
    For example, vitamins C, D and E, certain amino acids, minerals, polyphenol antioxidants, essential oils…The government is neglecting its
    duty to provide the population with correct information on this subject.

    With thanks to: dr. E. Beeth, dr. O. Bernard, dr. Q. Blonda, dr. P. Coomans, dr. R. Delaunoy, dr. C. Gaublomme, dr. Th. Guilmot,
    dr. V. Siderova, dr. Th. Schmitz, dr. P. Schnock (and others).

    http://www.asanat.org

    • What do you have to say about these 9 scientific reasons, electricmud? And the other three simple questions I’ve asked you?
      :-)

      • electricmud Says:

        Are you telling me you have checked and verified to your satisfactions everything on that 9-point list with the existing science? Or have you just copy-pasted it from another site because it agrees with your own point of view?

        You are confusing me with someone who as an axe to grind. I couldn’t give two hoots whether you take the vaccine or not nor do I feel the need to defend big pharma. But saying things like ‘filthy vaccine’ is just silly. As is copy-pasting everything you can find that supports your ideology.

        Your posts are anti-science, and that’s what I have problem with. People like you go around copying and pasting huge swathes of unsubstantiated, internet clap-trap as if that’s an acceptable way to conduct a discussion. You even admit it, as in your toxins response above.

        I’m not defending big Pharma but I am defending science. You have a binary view of a debate which is actually quite subtle and complex. Its not as simple as Big Pharma bad, personal choice good. For instance if not Big Pharama then who should be responsible for drug production on this scale? Are you saying the entire drug industry should be nationalised in each country? What model are you suggesting to replace the current one? Yes there are financial incentives to produce drugs – it’s a commercial business, but after a few years all drugs come out of patent and anyone can manufacture them (without having to do all that expensive R&D work). This is a good thing. But that doesn’t mean I think all drug companies are beyond reproach. And just because Baxter fucked up with the live virus samples they sent it doesn’t mean they are part of an evil bio-weopon plot either.

        Likewise vaccine effectiveness in a variety of scenarios (yes and their safety) is an issue that needs more research. But to blindly spout the kind of nonsense you do does no-one any good. Though perhaps that’s is your real motive?

        You see things are always more complicated, more subtle, and to bring the debate down to the level of a conspiracy theory ultimately causes real harm as sensible debate is stifled.

        So I’m not going to reply to your ‘scientific points’ above for the reasons I’ve just given, but please just go and fact check it. I mean really do. Make it a special exercise. Look on it as a task. Go on it’ll be fun I promise.

        • Of course, I admit that it is a copy-paste job. I even mentioned it myself more than once since I’m no microbiologist or medical guy. I’ve pasted the concerns of medical personnel who are advising people NOT to take the flu vaccine. That’s because I trust them more than I trust the big pharma boys who manufacture the vaccines, the crooked politicians and the controlled media. You are welcome to trust those who fucked up by sending contaminated samples. I don’t care a fig if you do. I don’t!

          A vaccine that kills or disables people (who were promised that it was “safe”) IS filthy in my opinion and I’ll continue calling it that whether you find it silly or not. I have no ideology here – if any, I stand for informed personal choice. I don’t care if people who have been informed of the complete risks of taking a fast-tracked, improperly tested vaccine (with legal immunity for its marketers) fall ill. It’s their choice after all since they were informed. But the way they’re going about suppressing all doubts about the dangers and efficiency of something that’s being injected into the bodies of uninformed people irritates me and I’ll try to counter that by any way I can, including copying and pasting material in relevant places. And I’ve checked some (though not all) of those points to my satisfaction and I’ll do the same for the rest.

          Being anti-swine flu vax or anti-big pharma is NOT being anti-science. You’re trying to label me with things like being a “conspiracy theorist”, “anti-science” etc. instead of replying to my concerns about the swine flu vaccine. Accusing me of being anti-science is simply untrue. I fully respect the rights of those who want to take the shots after being informed of the risks of a dubious vaccine. I appreciate the fact that vaccination has been able to save many people from falling ill due to known diseases. Still, if they don’t to get themselves or their children injected with the stuff after being informed of the risks, they have a right to reject it and they cannot be coerced into accepting the shot!

          And I’m not suggesting any alternate model here. I would be the last person to suggest nationalisation of the vaccine industry since that would be as bad, if not worse. The big pharma boys can continue to manufacture vaccines and make money. But they cannot be allowed to get away with serious lapses that can result in many deaths or disabilities. Nor can they be allowed to inject “fast-tracked” stuff that hasn’t been tested properly into the bodies of people who haven’t been informed of its risks. And they should face the legal music in case their stuff goes horribly wrong and kills or disables people!

          When big government, big pharma and big media team up to spread fear among the people and inject dubious stuff into their bodies without having to worry about the legal consequences, that smells of a conspiracy against the little guys (individual citizens). And the little fish can do what they can to spread awareness to resist the plans of the big fish. It isn’t a wonder that the crooks want to control the internet by any means possible.

        • axinia Says:

          It was obvious, now finally the light comes out of the whole story, I wonder what would you say now, electricmud:

          (Google translation from German):
          Mess with the flu
          Health threat from counterfeit pandemic – is the motto of the Council of Europe in January dealing with the influence of the pharmaceutical industry to the global campaign against avian and swine influenza.

          Berlin – It provides for an emergency debate in the Parliamentary Assembly and a committee of inquiry.

          It was initiated both by the former German Bundestag Wolfgang Wodarg (SPD), in the Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe still in office as head of the subcommittee on health. Wodarg is a physician and epidemiologist, he considers the handling of the swine flu to be “one of the biggest medical scandals of the century”. In his committee unanimously adopted a resolution criticizing the influence of scientists and pharmaceutical authorities by enterprising entrepreneurs. This had resulted in “millions of healthy people were unnecessarily exposed to the risk of poorly tested vaccines were” – for an infectious disease that “is considerably more harmless” than any flu outbreaks in previous years and “not even one tenth of this normal deaths” have caused.

          Worse than the fact that the vaccine manufacturers would have earned with their scare tactics at the expense of taxpayers so magnificently Wodarg found that “you took it too personal injury in department. The effect vaccines hidden in the amplifiers have barely been tested, “said the SPD politician, the Tagesspiegel. And side effects to dangerous nerve palsies were recorded by still patchy.

          Would need to employ Europe and Rapporteur, according Wodarg particular the role of the UN World Health Organization (WHO), has declared in June for the swine flu pandemic, the highest level. For the first time the criteria for upgrading here is not been to the actual risk of disease, but the number of cases. Thus, the infection was regarded as a global epidemic, the states have been urged to take action. The purchase of almost a hundred million times tested vaccines and drugs had been the world’s reaction – despite the reluctance of a few skeptical countries like Poland, Luxembourg and Switzerland.

          Because the WHO would not need to parliamentary control, where governments now require consequences Wodarg calls. It can not be that one of the Pandemic definition leave an organization, obviously subject to the influence of pharmaceutical sales people. Many of the decision makers there would come from the industry and went back there, “said Wodarg. Was also to investigate the role of and influence on Paul Ehrlich and Robert Koch Institute, Germany in the decisive positions.

          In the past, has already stirred up a Council of Europe investigation dust. In 2005, the Swiss politician Dick Marty was asked to trace the alleged secret rendition and detention by the CIA in Europe. His reports documented the existence of CIA secret prisons in Poland and Romania, and the complicity of several European countries for the illegal activities.

          (Published in the printed Tagesspiegel of 16.12.2009)
          Are you interested in this subject and want no article in the Tagesspiegel miss it? »Inform | »Login
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          Climate change requires us to another mental attitude. What Prince CharlesHas to say to the environmentalists British throne, at the UN climate conference in Copenhagen.
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          Adams Giant
          CSU:
          Fluctuating figures
          More from Opinion …Berlin »
          Incident Waidmannslust:
          Boy runs with a knife by the disabled
          In an incident at a school for the mentally handicapped in Waidmannslust has a boy slightly injured with a knife. Even a police officer was injured. Initial reports of a massacre were not confirmed.
          wetter.tagesspiegel.de:
          Snow and ice in the rush hour
          World Premieres:
          Berlinale with Polanski and Scorsese
          More from Berlin …Comments [7] Add comment » of commentator | 15.12.2009 22:34 Clock Not reformed.

          Wodarg be endorsed in all respects and it is hoped that he succeeds.

          But he will have none.

          As well as the deepest financial crisis in 80 years had no effect on their cause and will have.

          The system is evidently not reformed.
          reply to this comment of Dr_Brinkmann | 16.12.2009 0:02 Clock Bravo Mr. Wodarg

          However, the swine flu pandemic will cost many managers head, which I am sure, because, unlike the secret can no longer be concealed. The Polish newspaper Polskaweb News (www.polskaweb.eu) already reported for months on non overseeable Megabetrug, many want to act now and you will succeed.
          reply to this comment of uwemohrmann | 16.12.2009 7:45 Clock commentator

          Do not forget, which was the diligent Hyterie fueled by our press.
          reply to this comment of Time-to-wake | 16.12.2009 7:52 Clock So capitalism is

          no less dangerous than the swine flu.
          Then again, a new vaccine would be due:
          Antigier
          reply to this comment of klaus_weiss | 16.12.2009 8:44 Clock Now you can ask, yes, …

          … because the drugs are paid for the first profitably test results arrived at the pharmaceutical companies and the definition of the WHO Pandemic anbieterfreundlich been changed.
          reply to this comment of bluepoint | 16.12.2009 9:51 Clock Just beginning – but they are in positive

          Hopefully a few brave politicians are now starting with the refurbishment of the adjacent scandals, plus I count not only to the swine flu, but also to global warming. My voice gets any of the other hand, comes on and calls the guilty and is in the pillory.
          reply to this comment of hansen75 | 16.12.2009 10:47 Clock Lost in space?

          Since Mr. Wodarg but has completely misunderstood what. The definition of a pandemic there for decades. It reads:

          “In pandemic is a country-and intercontinental spread of a disease, in the strict sense of an infectious disease. In contrast to the epidemic, a pandemic is therefore not confined locally. ”

          Because who else can come in the definition can not be shaken. Then there’s something else that is the definition of WHO Phase 6 in a pandemic. Since this is only the definition of the WHO, the WHO can only define them. The WHO under the massive influence of the pharmaceutical lobby is known, but it has precious little to do with the genetics of the virus. Why is expressed in the TSP, no one on the current developments in the virus? How then classifies Kerkule D225G, D225N, H274Y, and the changes in the avian PB2 segment? The problems are officially and there is no one who grapples with viral genetics (using actual gene sequences), which denies the threatening changes. The TSP could still researching how many times the D225G/D225N-Mutation was detected and how many are still alive. Such numbers are nothing for this function.
          Especially cute is also unrealistic statement in the article:

          Causes “at an infectious disease that” is considerably more harmless “than any flu outbreaks in previous years and” not even one tenth of this normal deaths “have.”

          Again, escalating pandemics come in waves. There is not an indication that the pandemic is over, the viral genetics of the virus indicates just the opposite. Similarly, they could announce in the future in football games, the mid-term results as final results.

          This article is probably due more to the search for identity of the SPD, or is there something else behind?
          ——–
          Original here:

          http://www.tagesspiegel.de/politik/international/Schweinegrippe-Europarat;art123,2976433

  22. Karthik Yoganathan Says:

    I read the post and some of the comments (not all)… A few I could understand while the rest went right over my head :)

    I am educated just enough to know that I don’t know much :)

    For instance I have no idea about Swine flu and the vaccines (big fight :d) and other stuff that was a part of the comments, but I just wanted to share a few of my own thoughts that might be interesting(I think),

    Galileo, considered by many to be the founding fathers of what we perceive as the modern day ‘science’, was an interesting man.

    [..]At age twenty, Galileo noticed a lamp swinging overhead while he was in a cathedral. Curious to find out how long it took the lamp to swing back and forth, he used his pulse to time large and small swings. Galileo discovered something that no one else had ever realized: the period of each swing was exactly the same[..]http://inventors.about.com/od/gstartinventors/a/Galileo_Galilei.htm

    What do we learn from this?

    That perhaps, we should keep our eyes open? Or maybe something that generally is considered to be something, need not necessarily be so if you watch closely? Or maybe that the enemy of science is preconception? Because it makes us ignore something just because it does not make logical sense (I mean, logically it is impossible to believe that irrespective of the length of the swing, it would take the same time for an oscillation) Ice is so heavy and yet it floats, doesn’t it? Whoever thought it would? I mean, if I didn’t know that for a fact, I wouldn’t have even thought of chucking a bit of ice into the river and seeing what happens, right? After all, I am free to have my own private myth :)

    Aren’t there many things like this we don’t even care to think just because we think it’s so obvious? And the most dangerous among them, is the great debate :) Does God exist or not? At one point in time, people were murdered because they said God does not exist. And now people are being bored with a million arguments if they ever say he does :D Full turn of the wheel, it so seems… I have read strange books that offer strange theories about God and his existence (God’s debris for one)… And often it’s quite a hilarious experience the way people think they know everything :)

    Perhaps, we should put our own theories to the test… And no matter how much we like them, we should try to experiment and see if it is in fact the truth, right?

    So what is this so called science? What is this ‘framework’?

    Ok. Let’s go to the basics… What is the scientific basis on which we conclude on something?

    An interesting answer can be found here,

    http://www.sciencemadesimple.com/scientific_method.html

    And I would like to call your attention to a very vital point mentioned in the site,

    //Quote -> You can not PROVE the hypothesis with a single experiment, because there is a chance that you made an error somewhere along the way. What you can say is that your results SUPPORT the original hypothesis. Unquote ->//

    So its simple (at least to me :)) that science has not answered the question or given any proof to any of the questions mentioned by Axinia, most of all the question –
    Does the Source, the Creator, God exist? (Obviously, I have no idea about the experiments that been done on this subject… But experts are divided which essentially means, something is not proven/accepted as a proof)

    True there have been theories… Hypothesis…. And sometimes, circumstantial evidence… But no compelling proof of conclusion… One can merely have reasons to believe (rational and logical) in a particular answer… But it can hardly be called science with so much of scientists disagreeing with each other..

    So whatever electricmud was talking about is just a theory (theory 42 and what not!)… Some find it plausible while other find it funny, and that’s individual freedom of opinion…. Until of course, there is a compelling evidence.

    I am reminded of course, rather amusingly, of the story of a native (the story being one of my own creations :p) …

    A traveler went to an island unexplored, and told the natives that the Earth was round and not flat as they so believed. Some of them said – ya and the others fought with him saying – nay… ‘Are you an idiot?’ a few asked him while others called him ‘God’ for he was so sure of such great things as the shape of the Earth :D

    The times are such, people when opinions are available two for a cent…(Comes to my mind, a nasty joke told by one of my friends about opinion)

    But it is also true that new avenues are being opened up… New discoveries are being made in science and spirituality… What was thus far unknown is being reviled or at least it seems possible. As such things come to pass, a scientific mind merely observes and does not make inferences and does not support things one way or the other… Perhaps, what was once considered as a dogma, may now become a scientific fact or otherwise. We evolve, don’t we? The scientific mind, must therefore, observe… Very carefully and not have strong opinions or just blindly follow unsubstantiated theories… And one must not be hasty in forming conclusions based on just theories… If we are cocksure about things we actually aren’t, then mostly we will miss the compelling evidence that might present itself right in front of the eyes… Of course, it can be generally concluded that superstitious beliefs and religious fundamentalism cannot be anyway related to the truth for it’s ugly face has been reviled for all of us to see… We evolve, and what we once thought as religion or God seems to have changed… Perhaps someday, we can be in a position to conclude about the existence of God himself. But how?

    As Sopocles rightly put it – ‘Look and you will find it. What is unsought will go undetected.’

    Often, just watching can help us know better than judging (remember the Galileo’s lamp experiment) … Perhaps then we get to understand something of a greater depth :) And slowly, we shall get to know better of all these things….

    A thought – http://www.pbs.org/empires/thegreeks/characters/socrates_p4.html

    //He [Socrates] was the wisest man in Athens because he alone was prepared to admit his own ignorance rather than pretend to know something he did not.//

  23. Dima Says:

    Hey guys, i’m not as smart as you are :), but i am from Ukraine and i know my government and my people. so i’m not surprised with the News about terrible viruses. We have this kind of news almost everyday, we have: Orange revolutions, Gas steeling news etc. It’s just a part of the show. We have a god now, it’s television. As simple as that.
    And about Science vs Reliogin, please watch this movie, if you haven’t. There is a five hour version, if it’s possible give your conlusions (short ones :) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tSk51Lp-vHU

  24. Sam Says:

    Science does answer the first two questions.
    I will start with the second one first.
    Does such a thing as a soul exist? If so, is it immortal?-There is a GDV Photograph technique by which the Scientists have photographed the soul leaving the dead body.You should check it on Youtube.Unfortunately Science can’t prove the second part of your question.
    Now I will go the first one.
    Does the Source, the Creator, God exist?Now if Science can prove that soul exists then it is automatically proved by Science that the creator exists.
    I agree with you that Science can’t answer the other 5 questions and it will never will.I also agree that Science has made our life more materialistic.No one knows the real meaning of Science.The true meaning of Science is seeking the truth.This man-made Science is just an illusion created by humans.Our ancestors had more knowledge about Science than we have today.f you read the Ramayana you will know that there were supersonic airplanes which we humans cannot make in today’s world.Only the difference is that our ancestors knew how to use Man-Made Science in the right way.
    With less Science and Technology our life would have been more happy and peaceful as it was in the 17th century.But however if there is no Science and Technology at all we will go back to the stone age and our life will be more difficult.
    SO MAN-MADE SCIENCE CAN BE USEFUL ONLY IF IT IS USED IN THE RIGHT WAY.

  25. Lalit Says:

    Dear Auxinia,
    I was just surfing & find your blog starting with some questions which science is unable to provide. You just go thru http://www.asitis.com site where you will get all clarifications. Science today is providing all materialistic comforts but not spirituality which is absolute necessary. Public is made busy with all types of instruments & do not have time to ask “who am i”. Our supreme lord Sri Krishana had described everything thousands year ago thru Bhagvad Geeta.
    You just go thru the site & study to get knowledge
    Regards,

    Bhartiya

  26. Crystal Menchaca Says:

    well basically God does exist scientists say that he doesn’t exist because they have not seen him physically but that doesn’t make him any less real we see him by faith and not by sight. ^_^


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